Tom Wright 2

Sounds like a good step forward Richard ,keep up the good work. Tom

Hi Richard Well the most important thing here is your resolution not to give up. Attempting a new design by scaling up is perhaps a little ambitious until a good few hours of successful auto gyro flying experience is gained . IMHO the AJ is an easy to fly model so at this stage any difficulty encountered should be revisited and considered carefully. As I have said many times before early days flights are often terminated by disorientation flying to fast , and not having a full appreciation of the trim factors that result in a model that can be managed by a rotary newbie. To comment on your scale up would require some data on blades,shims, plate, AUW, and power but if its any help I do have a scaled up CF with a mast height of 14" measured from the fus bottom to the pitch pivot point . If you live within practical driving distance from North Nottinghamshire I would be happy to help[ get you flying with any auto gyro, I also have several CF based trainers that you could have a go with. Regards Tom.

Hi Ian Thanks for the comments on my model. As for recovering your TG had you considered a ready sewn Dacron bag for the wings? As always alternative covering methods and materials can go against weight and cost considerations but I have always thought it would be good to come up with a capping solution that held the fabric off the foam. I recon it would be well worth paying Andy a visit as from what I have seen on here he has made a great job and come up with some interesting mods. Regards Tom.

Hi Ian Is this your Tiger Cub? **LINK** BTW The Micro Bipe was IMHO a deceptively tough little aircraft that endured all sorts of abuse .

Many congratulations Andy well built and well flown,incidentally a Tiger Cub flew from Crosland Moor in 1983 nice to see history repeated. On the subject of blue foam based aircraft my own design 17 ft span model recently flew for the first time here is the link to the video **LINK** Best regards Tom.

Posted by JoanW on 06/08/2015 12:41:53: Tom, that is one BIG beast. I'm sure you'll enjoy flying it. Joan Thanks Joan if the model turns out to be as STOL as your AX3 my experiment will have been worthwhile. We have a well manicured runway surrounded on three sides by large open fields but the runway is very short . Tom.

Don't want to bore you with old bloke ramblings Andy but this model is an off the cuff quick build experiment undertaken after finding three sheets of inch foam during a clear out, I don't like to waste useful materials so in a moment of madness I did a rough concept drawing and some simple sums and cut out the out line with a hand saw. The 17 ft span model weighs near to 20kg so I have put it on LMA and got it cleared for covering,it has a 50cc electric equivalent up front turning a 24 x 12 prop the power train with four 5A five cell lipos returns 4 KW . The wing has four 5ft struts so the main spar is quite modest comprising of 2 inch deep 1/4 hard balsa with inch tri section to get good bond area to the foam ,the bending loads are transmitted via the foam to carefully selected inch by 1/4 hard wood spars bonded to the foam leading edge and to the foam trailing edge before the trailing edge is added. Possibly a daft way of doing things but it just evolved that way and did not break when loaded to + 4 G. Roll is rudder only which keeps things simple for a floaty none aerobatic machine and is a follow on after building rudder /elevator a 10ft blue foam model four years ago which can be seen here .

Current state of play with my current blue foam based project .

Posted by Andy Carter on 05/08/2015 06:09:55: A bit off topic but hopefully excusable as we are discussing blue foam construction. Have you seen this? I bought a copy of the plans out of interest a couple of years ago. www.machnone.com Andy thanks for the link to the Pup project, very interesting, I was under the mistaken impression that Bert Rutan and me were the only constructors using blue foam in the early 80s having said that my first full size project the Microbiplane ( photo at the page top) used white foam of a lower density than blue resulting in an empty weight of around 150 lbs and yet the machine was surprisingly robust . I still have a video tape of the Microbiplane performing loops ( very naughty) this was very unusual for the era but the diminutive machine survived transportation to air shows and a nasty prang when a pilot lost power on finals and encountered a deep ditch at touch down resulting in a substantial impact followed by an inverted tail first slide to a stop the damage was minimal and the pilot walked away without a scratch, perhaps this is testimony to the shock absorbing properties of foam structures? Your moment arm mods emulate conventional structures but I guess the materials used result in better strength to weight and an overall improvement, nice work . My large foam based models all use lightweight caps to eliminate covering contact with the foam this prevents indentations in the foam caused by rough handling and hanger rash it would be interesting to develop a similar approach for a full size design to maintain the excellent covering finish that you have achieved . Tom.

Thanks for the info Andy, having now had a quick look at the CAA Q&A SSDR page it re kindles thoughts of new designs to take advantage of modern power units or even,dare I say, electric power for local flights. Your airframe up dates all sound good to me . As a matter of interest is the covering as originally supplied with the kit ? I ask as this was specially produced with a thicker glue layer. Martin Thanks for your post and interest. Tom.

Andy I have used PU throughout my current 17 ft blue foam based model build and would agree it seems to be a better adhesive for this type of application. I think it creates a material friendly bond layer between the aluminium and foam and may even be more resistant to torsional and bending load fractures. Although it could well be better than epoxy it represents a deviation from the original so if you are building under the LAA would Francis D need to give thumbs up? I am way out of touch so don't know what the current procedures are. I see you have the low wind screen and what looks to be Jims rudder mod,although the all moving control surfaces keep things simple and light I have always thought that a slightly off set fin may have helped with the typical tail dragger yaw to the left on lift off ,but the increased rudder area and a current tail dragger experience should see things going to plan. Tom.

Posted by Andy Carter on 03/08/2015 09:27:22: I'm really making progress now. The wings went on over the weekend. Still got quite a bit of rigging to do and the ailerons to finish and fit. Andy Thanks for the photos that looks like a beautifully finished aircraft , just love the cockpit detail and the new wing cores produced from your cnc cutter. Our factory foam cutter designed by the late Russ Light was an analogue affair but did produce hundreds of cores back in the day. Tom.

Posted by Steve Jones 2 on 10/06/2015 13:48:33: Mark, Plenty has been written and suggested which I will not disagree with.. For me its simple... Your Atom flies as proven by Rich and you.. so why change anything?? The issue is your take off technique which understandably is influemced by your previous experiences, wrong for auto gyros. So go back and try again from the floor, starting with back stick to build rotor speed as you SLOWLY increase ground speed. Once you notice the blades really start to spin release the back stick to neutral, add some more power smoothly, but you should not need much. The Model then should take off smoothly, if it does not then rotor speen is not sufficient still - then continue and wait with alittle bit more throttle. If you try and force the takeoff with back stick, you might be lucky .. OR it will leap into the air straight up or leave the floor and immediately roll left and start the 'funky chicken dance!!' ..................time for the glue. Over the last 2 years, learning this art of model and flying, believe me I have done all the above and crashed on take off all the time, now it makes sense and i see why the experienced autonuts make take offs look sooooo easy... Once you get the knack its so rewarding and then you can watch the new comers struggle with mutterings of ... 'my model wont fly, I need to change something.....' The advice from Steve is IMHO good .First time Auto gyro constructors should have faith in the design as detailed on plan and keep in mind that such designs have been born from hundreds of hours of experience . Rotor dynamics are very different from fixed wing and generally not well understood so for most so changing the design takes the constructor into unknown territory before sufficient pilot experience is gained. When the model is set up as advised and the correct pilot technique is understood and implemented then these models can be flown with relatively great ease once the issue of disorientation has been mastered. Regards to all Tom.