Nigel Heather

Please don’t let my question cause people to fall out. 🙏 So where I am: The first thing I did was to add some elevator - that reduced the effect and left it flying what I consider properly at low throttle. I didn’t try adding lots of elevator to try and level out at throttle because the elevator is clearly deflected already so that didn’t seem the right answer - more like curing the symptom rather than the fault. I then more than doubled the down thrust, it may have made a small amount of difference but not much. Again adding more seems like curing the symptom. Unfortunately, I don’t have access to an incidence meter - it would be great to see what it is but unfortunately I can’t. So next flight I will loosen the wing and slip in some card near the leading edge, retighten and see what that does - I’ll let you know, won’t be until Wednesday at the earliest.

All reasonable textbook suggestions I am sure. But in reality ..... My short flights with this have left my pulse racing and my arms shaking. For me, it is a challenge to keep the thing in the air, it is one big panic to keep it under control and to bring it down. With any sort of throttle it climbs quickly into the clouds, at minimum throttle it is quite mushy and difficult to control in a different way. My flights have been made in panic, I certainly do not feel at any time I could do some inverted flight - I'm not that comfortable flying inverted with an aircraft that flies well. But I am becoming a little puzzled with the comments about CoG - to date the advice and guidance has been 'it's not the CoG' so I haven't played around with it other than to check it falls within the manufacturer's stated range. One of my first questions was whether to push the CoG forward and I was simply told in chorus that it wasn't the CoG. So going back to issue, the stated range for the CoG is 80-100mm, mine is set at 90mm, is it worth moving it forward to see if that makes any difference?

Remember we are talking about a mass-produced, cheap(ish), foam plane here, not a precision F3A aircraft. I'm not expecting perfection, but I did expect it to fly reasonably well out of the box provided that it had been assembled correctly. I have just carefully inspected the build, well to be precise, inspected for the third time, but just in case. The tailplane fits into a slot in the fuselage - this is fitting perfectly, so if it is wrong it is down to manufacturing. Likewise, the wing sets on the bottom of the fuselage and again that looks like a very good fit, pretty flush where the fuselage and wing meet with no overly large or uneven gaps. So again, if that is wrong it down to the manufacturing. I don't have an incidence meter - I'll put a call out to the club members to see if they have one - but I don't know what I should be looking for even if I do manage to get hold of one. Finally, in terms of packing - do I need to pack the trailing edge or the lead edge - it's a low wing plane so packing will push the packed edge closer to the ground

This is exactly what it is doing.

Not academic yet, prepared to try some more stuff, just that it will get to the point where I decide I am doing more fiddling than flying. And yes I am pretty irritated that I am even having to do this for an ARTF foam model - I expect them to work out of the box.

No, I’m the only one with one, regretting buying it to be honest. I’ll keep tinkering but there is only so much valuable time I’m prepared to waste on it - there’s a good chance it’ll just end up in the tip - certainly won’t be buying another Max Thrust product, has been full of disappointments from the start.

Yes but I’ve already more than doubled what the manufacturer suggests and that made no difference at all - how can it be so wrong for a mass-market model that has sold in the thousands without any similar stories. Is there something else I could have done wrong with the assembly?

UPDATE - took it down to the field yesterday. Tried it first unchanged because there was zero wind compared to the first flight which was a little gusty. Same happened so that ruled out being wind related - didn’t think it would be but worth the check. So added some more downthrust by adding an extra washer top-right and top-left. The washers I had were a little thicker than the ones already fitted which means that I more than doubled the amount of downthrust - it was very evident to see that the mount/motor were pointing downwards. I’m sad to say that this made little difference, the plane still climbs significant at anything above 1/4 throttle. Now pretty perplexed what it can be. Going to try moving the CoG forward, but not convinced that is the cause so not holding my breath.

It does come as a surprise just how small some of these big name model companies are. Just before the pandemic hit I was looking at 500 sized electric helicopters and I had settled on the Mikado Logo, huge name in the model helicopter world. I parked it during the pandemic, started looking afterwards but there was no stock anywhere. I put this down to the world-wide semiconductor shortage that followed the pandemic, so I continued to keep an eye on the market. But years after, when everything should be clear, there was still no stock. I tried emailing the company but never got any response. Then someone on a forum advised me that mister Mikado had decided to take a break and reassess where he wants to go with the business. At this point I’d seen a good second hand Logo but was now worried whether spares would continue to be available, so I made direct contact with mister Mikado and had a really good exchange of communications. He told me that the competition with other brands had become cut-throat to the point that he either had to sell at a price where he made no profit or sell at a price that customers would not pay. He did say that he would continue to make spares but not regularly, he would wait until there were sufficient requests for a given part to make it worthwhile, so he concluded that spares would be available but you might have to wait a few months. The biggest shock for me, is that I imagined Mikado to be a huge company, with shiny offices and cutting edge factories, but it turns out it was practically one guy who lives above the workshop aided by a few helpers.

I do agree with that - I feel that I was a little suckered to buy a kit that was stated as ICE or EP only to find when I got home and opened the box that there was no provision for EP at all. First you have to buy their overpriced conversion - and then find out it is just a small piece of ply to build up an engine mount, with no instructions for it let alone how you are meant to do the rest of the EP conversion. Of course I can figure it out myself but it wasn’t something I was expecting to do.

Yes, I was a little annoyed to find that although they specify EP on the box, the kit makes absolutely no provision for it. It is only once you have got home and looked at the contents that you realise that you have to buy the electric motor mount which turns out to be a small bit of plywood which is overpriced, as is the P&P. And even then you are left to figure out how to make a battery compartment and fixtures. As I said I do have some buyers remorse, and wish I’d bought the Cambrian one.

Maybe because some time ago the original company split into two selling a near identical product range. There is Cambrian and Cambria, two different companies, very confusing I know. Cambria seem to be more ‘with it’ technology-wise as they have an active Facebook Group - this is one of the reasons I chose Cambria over Cambrian - there is much more of a buzz and near instant access to advice and guidance. I did have a little ‘buyer’s remorse’ though - my BF-109, still in the box, is to be electric powered, when I purchased, although the Cambria kit states EP requirements there is little provision in the kit - the kit was already £10 more expensive, then you have to buy the electric conversion on top (another £15) and EP is not covered at all in the plans or the instructions so you have to work out the battery compartment, ESC placement, cooling yourself. With the Cambrian you get all that in the kit so I somewhat wish I had bought the Cambrian. The main advantage that the Cambria kits claim is a re-designed wing with built-in washout, but other than that I think they are pretty much identical. Also, I bought my kit at Wings and Wheels last year, Cambria didn’t attend but also sell through a balsa and accessories company who were there. I felt a little bad going to the Cambrian stall to buy decals as Cambria don’t sell them - and it was sad to see as I passed the Cambrian stall many times that there were no customers - so perhaps that was the writing on the wall.

Thanks, all makes sense, but puzzling all the same. Not changed the motor - everything is stock. But as you say, worth trying it with some extra washers top right and top left to see if that changes. Do you know what the consequences of having too much down thrust? Cheers, Nigel

Hi, To summarise .... The stated CoG range is 80mm to 100mm from the leading edge, mine is balancing at 90mm. In terms of trust angles I have what is provided by the manufacturer - they use washers between the firewall and motor mount as follows: Looking at the motor from the front Top Right - 2 washers Top Left - 1 washer Bottom Right - 1 washer Bottom Left - 0 washers Which amounts to one washer of right thrust and one washer of down thrust. When I apply power the plane makes quite a significant climb, akin to pulling back fairly hard on the elevator stick - this isn't a gentle climb. I understand why you say that it needs more down-thrust and whilst that sounds reasonable, it does puzzle me that a model that is so common can need such adjustment - it's not like I have heard this as a common complaint. Cheers, Nigel

The Ruckus is different in that respect - it has a wooden firewall and a proper 'X' motor mount. There are washers behind the mount providing down and right thrust.

So rather embarrassingly, I have only just managed to fly it, some 14 months after buying it. I'm flying 4S with a 2800mAH battery, nose weights removed. Had one flight, and to be honest it wasn't pleasant. At low stick it was very sluggish, clearly not very aerodynamic as it slowed to a stop in a slight head wind. But at higher throttle it ballooned up quite considerably - maybe my CoG is too far back. I have a heavier battery and will try that next. Overall, just on the first flight, it is nowhere near as nice as my acrowot, but I will persist to see how it improves with a CoG change. Honestly, though, if I could have my time and money back would probably buy a Wots Wot. If you are wondering why I bought it when I have an AcroWot - it is because my AcroWot has lots of crash damage, glued together and a wobbly motor mount. The motor mount issue and the broken undercarriage mounts made me think that I'd be best getting the Ruckus as a replacement rather than buy another Acrowot.

I learned on a Yamamoto, later I had a Puppeteer, both flew really well on an OS 35FP. Cheers, Nigel

Presumably it cost you a lot less 4 years ago though. Must admit, was tempted to buy a hurricane though - will have to see what electronics I have lying around at home.

Doesn't help the OP, but just looked at the model in the store and it now seems like there is only one option and that includes the deluxe parts, decals and, most surprisingly, the ployester covering film.

The 4Max motors have replaceable shafts which must mean the shaft is easy enough to remove. Therefore, if it were me, I would remove the shaft, do the cut, and then refit it. That way, the steel dust is kept well away from the motor.

I doubt you will find any, typically if these foamy ARTFs need any side/down thrust then it is built into the fuselage or where the mount attaches. One approach is to just fit the motor and see how it performs - if it out at all it won't be by much.

Yes, exactly this. I already have four 4S 3300mAh and it would be nice to be able to reuse them. If the answer were "no, they are too light, you need 4500mAh batteries" then I would need to purchase them which is where my estimate of an extra £200 came from.

Thanks for all the help. Pretty much as I feared, I’d have to spend £200 on new batteries to fly one so I won’t bother. Cheers, Nigel

I’m interested in a WOT4 EP, there are a couple of things I would need to sort out, but the answer to one question may cool my interest. The recommended battery is a 4S 4500mAh - why such a big capacity, is that for longer flight times or is the weight needed to balance it. The reason I ask if that I have some 4S 3300mAh and it would be great if I could use those but buying a set of 4S 4500mAh would be a turn off.

You might have missed out as the offer was time limited but if you bought 9.5 or 9.5S you could get a free upgrade to 10 or Evolution. I bought 9.5S and now have Evolution. Likewise fir the OP - if you bought 10 you might be able to get a free upgrade to Evolution, maybe even the next version when it releases. They seem to let you do two versions - so I bought 9.5S, so got 10 and the Evolution as free upgrades. But they don't publicise this very well.