Beechcraft Bonanza C35

[Dusty]

                

 

These might help too?

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Thanks for the hints, actually I have startedt to collect pictures - and to look for museums to get the view of the real thing - USA is the place to go. For instance the Smithonian museum at Washington D.C.  Have been there twice some years ago - but didn't look for Bonanzas

 

But I found a nice website with a lot of pictures here

Is there anybody who knows where to find a prototype in UK?

 

The tail feathers are not fixed yet - it was a test fit - there will be some shaping in the near future.

Edited By Vecchio Austriaco on 26/11/2010 10:41:15

[Erfolg]

In my opinion, it looks better in paint than bare metal.

 

I use 9g servos, and have found them to be good. Though I think there does seem to be differing gear train strengths, or a better description would be shock resistance.

 

I have now moved to HXT 9, from Tower Pro, MG 9 and a make which appeared identical other than shock resistance.

 

I have never had a centring issue though.

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Hi Erfolg, I have 3 HXT9 in my treasure box, two of them will go into the wings for aileron movement. I checked all my small servos with a temporary glued on pointer to see the centering precision. HXT9 are ok, Hitec 55 are very good, and the Turnigy stuff I use rather for difficult tasks as opening and closing the air valve

I will not use a metal like surface - I think coloured is more forgiving.

It is like on kitchen appliances. On the stainless stuff you see every fingerprint...

[Erfolg]

I do have some Ripmax servos, I think RD 200. These are very compact, much smaller and lighter than 9g clones,  with good torque, I think about 1.2kg (if Biggles is listening, about 10N cm ^-1). They were available a lot cheaper under other names. From Ripmax their price is high, but available.

 

I guess alternative supplies and brands will be part of your learning curve. I would be at a total loss if I went into a Italian model shop, I guess.

 

Then again from reading UK model magazines you could well have a knowledge of the UK distribution and brand names?

 

 

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

VA,

 

regarding finding a full size one in the UK - I think there is a K35 at Fairford (about 15-20 north of Swindon. It has the US registration N59VT. Any use?

 

BEB

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Thanks BEB I will try to find that place on the map. But not this weekend - as I have housework to do  

 

Erfolg: Actually I see little difference between model shops in Austria Italy and the UK. May be there are some home brands like Ripmax or Overlander and some models which are regional very poular like the WOT4, but all the rest is the same - if it comes to Servos you have the Ferraris like Savox, Futaba and so on, you have the middle classy ones like Graupner or Hitec and you have the cheap stuff from PRC - but the brands are the same. Or do you know a UK made servo (today, 2010 please). I don't know any Austrian or Italian servos, you couldn't pay them at 35€+ per hour labour cost.

So I went to Als Hobbies in the lunch break and purchsed 2 Hitec HS55 - I know them, I get them everywhere and I don't need to learn

Cheers from the Austrian blockhead

 

[Erfolg]

Hmmm.

To an extent, I did expect some similarities.

 

Yet, what the similarities would be, has rather puzzled me, still does.

 

I have become increasingly aware that  the UK model industry, has become (and perhaps always was) increasingly become distribution based. With companies such as Ripmax, Perkins, MacGregor and a few others dominating. I guess there are a number of other apparently smaller companies such as Overlander.

 

In most instances these businesses are distribution units, having distribution arrangements with other players, such as Graupner, Jarama,Multiplex, Futaba, JR. A lot of the products carrying the names of the distributors have their origins in the far East. Then there are others who have distributed model engines, such as Steve Webb.

 

Complicating matters is the apparent situation where many of the apparently UK distributor branded goods of Chinese origin, also find there way onto the UK market via other channels, under many other names,via BRC, GC, and Robotbirds etc. It is apparent that this sector is increasingly significant. I would imagine that many interests in the UK model trade, dislike this aspect, as it makes adding value (increasing margin) difficult more to achieveand justify. I suspect that some of the concerns originate from vested interests in relationship to alternative brand and routing.

 

So I do expect many similarities. But as Overlander assemble their own Lipo cell packages and West Wings and others struggle magnificently to manufacture in  the UK. I anticipate that Italy and perhaps Osterreich (where was Westereich?) has its own determined and intrepid manufactures, some being one man bands. Not just badge engineers. I admire these people for their tenacity, drive and optimism.

 

 

 

  

[Vecchio Austriaco]

We are off topic Mr Carl! The name of Austria, Österreich, derives from the Old High German word Ostarrîchi "eastern realm", and refers to Austria's position relative to other German-speaking lands. It is unrelated to the Latin word auster "south", e.g. in the name of Australia.

TGerman Österreich is readily analysable as connected to östlich "eastern" and Reich "realm, dominion, empire". The term probably originates in a vernacular translation of the Medieval Latin name for the region: Marchia orientalis, which translates as "eastern marches" or "eastern borderland", as it was situated at the eastern edge of the Holy Roman Empire.^[17]

 

This was Wikipedia says to us.

 

 

Back to the Bonanza: I am sure it will work with the purchased servos - I will have the most expensive light system you can think of and I hope it will not make the plane too heavy to take off after all extras... Next update on Monday morning

[Augusto]

Hi Vechio,

 

Posted by Vecchio Austriaco on 26/11/2010 15:41:47:

 

Erfolg: Actually I see little difference between model shops in Austria Italy and the UK. May be there are some home brands like Ripmax or Overlander and some models which are regional very poular like the WOT4, but all the rest is the same - if it comes to Servos you have the Ferraris like Savox, Futaba and so on, you have the middle classy ones like Graupner or Hitec and you have the cheap stuff from PRC - but the brands are the same. Or do you know a UK made servo (today, 2010 please). I don't know any Austrian or Italian servos, you couldn't pay them at 35€+ per hour labour cost.

 

You forgot the Austrian Company ROBBE; their radio equiments are great - a bit Futaba for Europe.

 

In the 80's I was working in France (1984 to 1986) I purchase a Terra Top 6 Ch. from Robbe, coming back to Portugal I had to change becose it worked in 40 Mhz and here it was 35. I change to Futaba and today I've a FF/ 2.4 Ghz. I assure you that those satandard servos 20 years later still works! 

 

About light systems, take a look at this:  www.lightingforaeromodellers.co.uk/

 

Cheers,

 

Augusto

Edited By Augusto on 26/11/2010 20:21:19

Edited By Augusto on 26/11/2010 20:22:45

Edited By Augusto on 26/11/2010 20:48:14

[Vecchio Austriaco]

The weekend started cold and with a little bit of snow and some Christmas shopping decreased the progress on my project. But something has been done.

The tail feathers are shaped now, hope they will not be chipped. To avoid chipping I went around the edge with some liquid cyano.

 

I started to play with the front landing gear and was searching for the right position for the equipment. Works quite well, but I have some loss of air. Means after 10 to 15 min the gear comes out as there is no pressure any more. May be this is because I made some temporary connections without fixing the tube properly. If it is another problem then I don’t need to set the timer any more – the plane decides itself when it wants to come down by lowering the landing gear….

 

The air filling valve found a place in the corner of the battery opening. The support made from light ply gives additional strength to the firewall and doesn’t disturb the battery.

> 

Sunday was very cold – but rather little wind – so I decided to go to the field instead of building. But not for long as the temperature was pretty low. So I had a bit of time to start with the first wing half. OK but: the balsa covering at the top brought a nice tension into the wing when it dried. So it is quite a bit bent. I hope it will go back to neutral when covering the other side of the wing...

 

That’s it, the program continues on Friday. Its too cold here, I go to Turkey to warm myself up…

Edited By Vecchio Austriaco on 29/11/2010 08:15:14

[Erfolg]

These kits do seem good value, it is a pity that no local model shop stocks Jarama stuff, up here in the North West.

 

Keep at Vecchio, you will enjoy a UK winter, not!

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Hi Erfolg - I enjoy 17degC outside temperature here at Denizli - and I know that there are 5cm of snow at Milton Keynes... So worth making a break from building

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Between business trips, family visits at Devon on icy roads and Christmas shopping I found a little bit of time to proceed with my project. And I found a few points which I don’t like.

Working on the wing I saw that the hinges for the aileron and flap will go into thin air – (not really but into a 2mm thin balsa strip) – to correct that I put some balsa blocks into the positions where they will be installed later.


I also reinforced the connection of rib no 1 as I don’t trust to hold it only with the planking in position.

 

All holes for the position light and landing light cables have been drilled as long as there was access to the parts.

 

 

What did the Jamara guys think about when they decided about the servo position for the aileron? Why not one position further to the wing tip? The servo is rather at the flap than at the aileron. Also I prefer to have my pushrod exactly 90 deg to the control surface. This is not because I don’t want to invest into ball links, but to minimize friction and strange effects coming from the geometry.

Finally I run out of glue and changed from building to Christmas present wrapping. Below the latest view of the wing.

 

 

The chances to finish the plane before Christmas are going down – more business trips and family visits (this time Vienna) ahead. In the meantime the engine arrived, but I am still waiting for the Led’s which I could order only last Thursday

 

Edited By Vecchio Austriaco on 06/12/2010 07:49:49

Edited By Vecchio Austriaco on 06/12/2010 07:51:21

[Erfolg]

I guess you will be coming back to the UK for a warm, if in Wien?

 

Anyway the model is looking good, and the speed of build is so high.

 

I suspect that the servos are so far inboard for the same reason as on my Ta 152 H build. That is because the wing is to thin further out, even then I reluctantly have had to extend the aileron further indoard than I would have preffered.

 

I will be interested in your servo linkage, as I appear to have the same problem.

[Pat (rActive) Harbord]

My solution, having glued the aileron and flap together was to more or less straighten the linkage. Now I've re-retro fitted flaps the ailerons are a little longer than intended. The control horn is where the join was. If you see what I mean. Not ideal but appears to fly okay. No aeros attempted yet though.

[Vecchio Austriaco]

OK, I will draw something tonight to show Erfolg how I would solve the problem - but I am not sure - I think of making the aileron control surfaces a second time as I am infected from Danny Fentons RDS tutorial. I will purchase the necessary wood during the lunchbreak. An RDS will need two parts turned on a lathe - and mine is still in Italy. As I think the plane will not be ready before christmas I will stop working on the wings - until it is clear if I can put in a RDS system. the alu parts will not change the total weight balance. Theoretically I could make the parts on the weekend at Vienna as also my father owns a lathe (modell builder family...) but I suppose my parents will not be happy if I spend most of the time in their workshop instead of Christmas smalltalk.

So: Patience is needed. I will bring my lathe, my proxxon circular saw and also my unfinished Extra 260 project over to the UK after Christmas, I am already altering some shelves in my wardrobe to find space for all the stuff.

[Erfolg]

I have loaded a picture of how aerofioil depth has limited my ability to fit a servo where I wanted it. The aileron is about twice the length I really wanted. I have used a very thin servo. But practicality and compromise rules, OK

 

[Erfolg]

I cannot but remember how a group of us, working at the AEA, helped save the Dom, by buying and drinking Gluhwein from a stall, still have the commemorative mug.

 

I also purchased some of the best dessert wine on the site, that I have ever drunk. I still regret not buying more. I went back the next day, thinking that the traders would be there for a few days. I was wrong.

 

I suspect your solution will be to complex for me, I like SIMPLE.

[Tim Mackey]

Lets back on topic please gents

[Vecchio Austriaco]

As mentioned I show how I would change the servo position for the aileron. I would mount the servo in an angle that allows the pushrod to go exactly 90 deg to the control surface. The triangle shows the approximate position of the pushrod. I would close the original opening in the servo lid and cut a new one in as the pencil drawing on the lid already shows.

 

But the RDS virus has infected me and so I purchased some wood, wire and a matching tube as well as a polystyrene sheet.. Who is interested in how a RDS system works should have a look into Danny Fentons Spitfire build – you shoud find it here. The original control surface has an aperture exactly at the point where I would like to mount the pocket for the RDS. So I decided to build up a new one of 3 x 3.2mm balsa, which allows me also to put the pocket in without too much trouble (if I can manage to make a pocket which is exactly 3.2mm thick. To make an extra control surface gives me also the possibility to fall back to the normal solution should I get into irresolvable trouble. For the pocket production I purchased some mirror silver styrene. The metal coated side will go inside and I hope it will last a while without changing its shape.

  

Finally one control surface has been produced; the pocket with outside dimensions of 30x20mm and inside dimensions of 20 x 15mm is already in place. It looks like there is little friction and little or rather no play. I think the method works also for smaller planes. As the profile of the wing is rather thick the servo size is not a problem (I will use a HXT 900 servo which is approx. 12mm thick) and I will move the servo one rib further to the wingtip. Enough for today. Tomorrow I have to make the other side and have to think how to install the servo. I would like to have access to the servo and to the grub screw which will fix the wire to the servo adapter but without adding unnecessary weight to the wing.

Edited By Vecchio Austriaco on 09/12/2010 07:56:10

[Erfolg]

It will be interesting as to how well it actually works.

 

It does seem to me that at the neutral position, any play in the tube assembly relative to moving surface will allow movement. That movement being dependant on the fit.

 

The servo providing no restorative forces.

 

At speed this play could show up as flutter, in the neutral position. Rolling would load up the system, possibly halting the flutter, as play is taken up and the servo, providing a restorative force.

 

I would expect a sloppy neutral at the normal position, very much dependant on the accuracy of the assembly.

 

I have seen a similar idea. This had a piece of piano wire inserted in-line with the surface as per the RDS? system.  A difference was that there was a slight bend at the hinge line. This was moved by a crank mechanism. The one I saw was most unimpressive. though.

 

To annoy Timbo, I keep my acrylic paints in a box, which contained a Sacha Torte that either my wife or I bought in Wien.  Ahhhhhhhhhhhggggggg, drool, and Mozarten Kugel.

[Vecchio Austriaco]

The slight bend ( 20 deg)  is there - you don't see it on the picture as the bend is exactly at the point where the hinge will go. I don't see problems with play - as long as the pocket is not worn out. With a semiscale plane I will not fly 3d so I think it will work quite well.

 

Don't eat any of your acrylic paints. Even if they smell like chocolate. May be not goof for your heatlth....

[Tim Mackey]

Mmmmmm, suitably hungry now Erfolg

[Erfolg]

I will watch and read with interest.

 

Whilst walking with the better half. I thought of where the servo disc was located.

 

If memory serves me we  it was not placed against the spar, bur towards the Trailing edge. If correct. It seems better at a practical installation level, to place the output disc at the deepest section.