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2 servo`s for ailerons. No Y lead wanted.Advice?


Gary Murphy 1
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Sorry for basic Q but i am a novice and the JR manual does not give much detail for the newbee.
I want to run 2 servo`s for aileron,1 each wing.And i know that the radio i have can do this.Reading the manual i need to select Flaperon wing.But it gives no details on channels to use.
I have worked out that on my 6 channel rx i plug into ail and aux1 this gets both moving for aileron.What i do not fully understand is, 1 servo travels more than the other and the radio calls them lail and rail but i do not know which servo goes to which side.
Looking from tail to nose of model does servo with most travel go left or right?
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Both aileron servos should travel the same amount. I'm not familiar with your radio, but when you "mix" two channels together (which is what you're doing) you can usually programme how much the "slave" channel moves relative to the "master" channel. In your case aileron is the master channel and aux1 should be the slave, and you need to see that aux1 is set to move 100% of the master's movement.
 
"lail" and "rail" stand for left aileron and right aileron. Strictly speaking it should be "pail" and "sail" (port and starboard)

By the way, if you're not going to use the flaperon function, a Y-lead connecting the two aileron servos direct to the aileron channel in the receiver is most reliable.

Edited By Allan Bennett on 11/09/2011 12:31:14

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Whilst using 2 channels for ailerons is widely available on a lot of transmitters the Y lead remains popular. As Alan said it is very reliable- I have never had one fail.
 
One issue a Y lead does help with is when you have removeable wings which contain ailerons (very common). With a Y lead the connection into the receiver is always left plugged in (which can be locked in with a cable tie) , and the ailerons are connected every time to the Y lead "arms". I then secure these with a locking clip for security. The disadvantage of going with 2 channels is you connect the ailerons directly into receiver- which always makes me worry about wear on the connectors on the receiver (never caused me a problem, but it worries me) and it is harder to secure beyond the friction fit.
 
I don't think I explained this very well, but there are advantages to Y leads. I use them a lot.
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I always use short extensions for ailerons, flaps or retracts or anything else that will be frequently disconnected, it saves wear and tear on the RX pins. I've got too many memories of dodgy receiver connections from the early days of SLEC connector blocks and the like.
As has been pointed out above, Y leads make for a simple set-up so are favourite unless you want to play with aileron differential or flaperons.
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Posted by Gary Murphy 1 on 11/09/2011 17:16:20:
Thanks for the info.I will think about using a y lead but i thought that was "old hat" with new technology : )
 
Y-lead direct from the aileron channel is the simplest way to operate two aileron servos, ensuring that they both move in unison. It's not really "old hat", though modern computer radios have introduced other, more complicated, ways to achieve the same thing.
 
I only ever use two separate channels if I want the servos to do different things from each other, such as if I'm using flaperons, or with simple flaps, where the servos are installed handed so I want them to move in opposite directions.
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Guessing that it's like a DX7, the right aileron usually goes in the RX aileron socket and the left aileron goes into the other.
 
The good thing about dual aileron servos without a Y-lead is that you can use sub-trims to allow for the servo arms not being square with the servo case.
 
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I hate to introduce a note of dissent into this happy brotherhood, but I'm afraid I can't agree that the Y lead is the more reliable solution. Its OK and it is reliable in the sense that everything in a modern radio is pretty reliable. But the ultimate in reliability must be the separate channel solution.
 
If one servo fails with a Y-lead there is a strong possibility you will loose all aileron control - or at least the response will be very unpredictable.
 
If one servo fails with the two channel solution you stand a good chance of the remaining aileron continuing to fuction normally and so getting back down running on one aileron. Most models are perfectly flyable with just one aileron.
 
The plugging/unplugging thing isn't really an issue - as Bob says above you just use short extentions in the rx and plug the leads into those.
 
Finally - and this will get me into trouble - are you going to let this beat you? Of course you're not! You want to get to the bottom of this. It might take a bit of head scratching - but in the end you'll have learnt something new and valuable about your radio. If you just plug in that Y-lead you'll have learnt nowt! Progress in modelling, as in many things in life, sometimes requires a little pain and effort!
 
BEB
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Posted by NigelH on 11/09/2011 21:02:24:
 
The good thing about dual aileron servos without a Y-lead is that you can use sub-trims to allow for the servo arms not being square with the servo case.
 
 
 
Well said Nigel - I forgot to mention that aside from reliability there are many other advantages to using two channels on ailerons. Individual trimming being a major one!
 
And that leads me to a question - are you sure you haven't just altered the travel limits on one of the channels and not the other - hence the different travel. Because you could do that with separate channel ailerons - have more travel on one than the other!
 
BEB
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Sorry for the delay,busy weekend.
Radio is a JR DSX9 and the manual is not very informative.
I am a newbee and know little BUT i did want and try to go the "non-y lead" method.
So i started to mess with options and when i altered the flap switch setting the servos moved the same and wing set to flaperon.
It gives no mention in the manual where each servo should channel wise,so i will take the above advise right aileron to ail rx channel and left aileron to aux 1 at rx ,6 channel rx.
I do get the point of plugging and unplugging and pin wear so if i need to dissemble,only 36" span i will get some short extensions and use them.
If anyone uses JR and knows the answer to where each aileron servo should go would like to hear,i would also look silly if this is in the manual : )
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I use JR but the 11x allows you to use servo mate for such i thing instead of flapperon(not sure if the 9 does) in which case you can pick any channel you want but normally the system defaults to aux1, your right wing servo plugging to ail the left to the aux, you have to tell the radio in the system meanu that your using a flapperon wing first, i also am with BEB here (thats a first) that i do not like Y leads, i have had one fail, and i like the fact that you can set servos independently up for travel end points and sub trims,
oh and by the way JR radios are fantastic but the manuals suck !!!
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Hi Gary,
 
I have a DSX 9 which I find excellent for four servo wing gliders, yet it is quite complex to set up.
 
I take it that you are in Acro mode for a powered plane.
 
The right aileron goes into the aileron channel and the left aileron into the flap channel.
 
It is hidden in that great big manual under Wing Parameter (Wing Type) where it tells you what flaperon wing type does.
 
It also says that if the ailerons are not going to be used as flaps, to inhibit the flap switch and flap trim in the Device Select function in System.
 
If you need any more help, just ask.
 
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Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/09/2011 21:08:53:
I hate to introduce a note of dissent into this happy brotherhood, but I'm afraid I can't agree that the Y lead is the more reliable solution. Its OK and it is reliable in the sense that everything in a modern radio is pretty reliable. But the ultimate in reliability must be the separate channel solution.
 
If one servo fails with a Y-lead there is a strong possibility you will loose all aileron control - or at least the response will be very unpredictable.
 
If one servo fails with the two channel solution you stand a good chance of the remaining aileron continuing to fuction normally and so getting back down running on one aileron. Most models are perfectly flyable with just one aileron. ...
 
Dissent, or healthy debate? Doesn't really matter
 
But I would suggest that two separate leads to two separate channels in the receiver are probably just as liable to failure as a single Y-lead into one channel -- statistically, there may even be more chance of some kind of failure due to the extra connector. My only experience of servo failure in 25+ years' flying has been stripped gears and dirty/worn pots (or whatever it is that causes them to center unreliably) neither of which affects the other servo on the Y-lead; and I've also got rudder to help me if necessary.
 
I accept all the benefits that have been pointed out for separate channels, but I've never ever felt the need to separately fine-tune each servo to operate correctly -- I just use decent servos that'll respond the same, and set them up carefully in the model so that they're both centered properly. My feeling is it's better to learn how to build and setup a model accurately than to rely on the "crutch" of a computer radio to overcome all the problems.
 
Having said that, I'm more than happy to use the computer to set up flaperons, elevons, and my heli
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With a modern, computer, tried and tested design nine channel receiver, separate channels for each aileron servo also allow for individual travel adjustment, camber (use as flaps) and snap flap (mixed to elevator).
 
A y-lead arrangement provides none of the above so why even contemplate it?
 
I fly six servo slope soarers and, even with a four channel, would not even think about using a y-lead.
 
Regardless, this is Gary's thread and if he needs some help in setting up his TX, we should do our best to provide that, and not digress!
 
 
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Hear hear! And he wants to ditch that Y lead! He say so in the title!
 
I think that Peewhit and Lee will be the best help here - JR are foreign territory to me! Futaba I can handle. A DX6i just about. But show me a JR - and we are into the "Dark Arts" from my perspective. But will watch on with interest to see how its done "JR style"
 
BEB
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Posted by Peewhit on 12/09/2011 23:02:27:
With a modern, computer, tried and tested design nine channel receiver, separate channels for each aileron servo also allow for individual travel adjustment, camber (use as flaps) and snap flap (mixed to elevator).
 
A y-lead arrangement provides none of the above so why even contemplate it?
 
 
The OP is a "novice" so he's unlikely to want or need the refinements (complications) you've mentioned. Heck, only a couple of my 20-or-so models need anything other than a Y-lead, so that's what the other 18 get.
 
Yes, the title says he wants to ditch the Y-lead. But he starts off by saying he's a novice, so he's looking for advice. He's now got both sides of the story.
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All the pro`s and con`s have been good to read and duely noted.
I started off by wanting to avoid a Y lead because i thought Computor radio`s avoided all that.
With help here i have got both servo`s working in unison and indeed found 2 ways to do this.
It looks like i can keep the model assembled anyway so the plugging unplugging proberly will not be a issue,so no Y lead it is.Thanks for the help/advice guys.
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