Tucano power system chat

[Graeme Evans]

Phil

quite right, but for that size of motor the 11.4A is either wrong, or isn't the max amps value... way too low.

The max amps for that size motor would usually be in the 30-50A region

Graeme

Edited By Graeme Evans on 16/11/2012 20:04:33

[Tim C]

The quoted figures seem a load of tosh! I am expecting this to be a 30amp motor on 3s that will give 300+ Watts, with a target weight of 36oz that will give me 133w / lb.

I think 36 oz target weight may be acheivable, given that Tuc Mk 1 was just over 40oz witth its heavier motor and battery.

When I get the motor, I will run some power tests and comparatives with the AXI and publish the results

[WolstonFlyer]

I think the A3536/8 motor has a max burst current of 35A and normal running max of 30A

[Phil Winks]

Seems a shame that some manufactures can't see their way to ensuring we have the correct specs for their motors or how are we supposed to make informed choices?

After all if this motor for instance is not a 30A as we all hope and we ask that of it who's at fault when the white smoke issues from the windings I wonder?

Time we had more cast Iron guarentees with this and other electronic flight equipment ! it has always annoyed me that in many cases the minute we power a piece of electronic flight equipment up the guarentee goes out the window.

Phil (rant and rave dept)

[Roger Bird]

Here are a couple of sites that provide some Turnigy motor data :-

Go to 'Engines' in the tool section.

Number 1

 

This one advertises as providing 'real' data :-

Number 2

 

I can't vouch for accuracy but by gathering enough info you can hopefully form a concensus.

Edited By Roger Bird on 16/11/2012 23:06:17

[Concorde Speedbird]

Wish I could join in, but I don't have the money or space in the fleet. I would personally fit a 25 two stroke (because I am like that!).

Sigh, never mind- my Domino is a fun build and the plane itself should be brilliant!

CS

[WolstonFlyer]

Not sure if this is the right thread or the other one for general mass build chat. Mods please move it if you want to.

 

I thought I would have another session at looking at the plans and making notes, as I have got my motor I thought I would have a look at motor mounting options etc. It looks like I need to make some slight changes to the plans for either of my two options.

Front motor mount with collet prop adapter.

This is the most direct looking fixing and probably the easiest just requiring a little more thickness on the collar/spacer behind the spinner. I am worried about bending or breaking motor shafts...

 

Rear mounting using the Propdrive style adapter

This will require another former (F1A?) behind the motor in roughly the position of the red line, but then how on earth do you get to the screws / bolts that hold the motor to the former? This will require quite a few changes to the plan although to me this looks like it may be more "solid" and the propdrive adapter is easily replaced if / when damaged. I would also have to cover the back of the motor shaft to prevent puncturing the LiPo during an arrival on the earth.

The other issue is with Hobbyking and their QA department
The Propdrive adapter does not actually fit on the motor, the hole in the back of the adapter does not quite fit over the lug on the back of the motor, even when pulling it down with the three bolts it does not want to tighten down fully... it looks like the hole is about 0.06mm too small, oh and the threaded section to mount the prop on is slightly pre-bent for me, so it is scrap anyway

I guess I will be ordering a replacement one...grrr

Edited By WolstonFlyer on 16/11/2012 23:47:04

[Phil Winks]

WF That all seems a little unlike turnigy though to be fair if I found the issue with the hole at the back of the bolt on prop driver I would prob mount it in the lathe and enlarge. the bent threaded shaft is a real no no though. So I think your right to send it back for a replacement. regarding the shaft protuding out and possibly puncturing the lipo I would've thought the lipo will be behind F2 or possibly under the motor.

Phil

[WolstonFlyer]

Hi Phil

Which mounting option would you go for?

I don't have access to a lathe but I managed to use a small round file to open up the hole in the back of the prop driver enough so it fits.

It is still bent so I will just use it during the build and replace it before any motor tests.

I think you are right about the battery being far enough away from the motor shaft, probably behind F2, there is no space under the motor.

The other thing I noticed about the motor is if using the prop driver the motor shaft seems to only have a C clip taking the thrust load onto the main bearing.

I think I will put a 4mm wheel collet over the shaft to stop the whole motor bell housing and prop from flying off the model if the C clip comes off.

[Phil Winks]

Hi WF I would go for the prop driver mounting over a collet on the shaft. as for the security of the shaft this way it will be fine theyre desegined to be used this way and in my view its a more solid fixing. when mounting the motor to a new fire wall one option is to get longer screws for the X mount and sandwich the fire wall between the motor and the X mount. you will of course have to open up the hole on the cetre of F1 to allow the motor to protrude through but on the plus side F1 can be remade from balsa as its holding nothing but the sacer behind the spinner.

just as a heads up I may not get time this weekend to work on the removable wing drawings as I've been informed we're of to plymouth for the day tomorrow

Phil

[Tim C]

Check out Tim Hoopers CleanSweep 60 Build log for how to on Firewall mount. I like the way he has mounted the x piece on the firewall amd then left a hole in the firewall so you can get to the mountor mount screws

[WolstonFlyer]

Ok, going to go with the propdrive adapter and rear mounting on a new F1A former.

Thanks Phil and Tim, I can see how to fit the X plate now with a hole in F1A, the X could then go on the outside with motor fixing screws access from inside the model.

Then the motor thrust pulls the X mount tighter against the former as well as bolts holding it in place.

[Tom T]

Posted by Tim @ ModelMarkings.com on 16/11/2012 18:34:32:

Hi Tom,

Interestingly in Tuc Mk1 I use a Turnighy 3000mah, fits no bother,

but plan on only a 2200 mah 3s version for the Mk2 lightweight build, saves around 4 oz,

The Turnigy from HK is only £12.87, maybe worth checking if they have them on the UK HK warehouse (not checked)

Edited By Tim @ ModelMarkings.com on 16/11/2012 18:36:24

Thank you! I will be on there today probably placing a few orders... I need to buy a few bits to fly electric aswell.

One thing I got confused with was how does the motor connect to the ESC? hmmm As you probably can tell I can connect a fuel line to an engine but when it comes to electric.... aha

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Posted by Tim @ ModelMarkings.com on 17/11/2012 10:55:06:

Check out Tim Hoopers CleanSweep 60 Build log for how to on Firewall mount. I like the way he has mounted the x piece on the firewall amd then left a hole in the firewall so you can get to the mountor mount screws

Yes, clever that.
My Whizzza:-

Motor will remove throught the hole at the front,and cooling is excellent.
In fact I've opened up an intake below the motor since these photos.

[Tim Hooper]

Posted by Chris Bott - Moderator on 17/11/2012 11:14:14:

Yes, clever that.

So it was you I got the idea from! Sorry Chris - I knew I'd seen the idea somewhere on this very forum, but couldn't for the life of me think exactly where......

Anyway here's a pic of the same idea on my CS60.

tim

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

That's OK Tim, I recon the forum Is where I get most of "my" ideas as well.

I like the captive nut development. Even the cross mount can be retrieved then if necessary.

[WolstonFlyer]

Hi Tom

The motor connects to the ESC with the three wires that come from one side of the ESC. They are usually all the same colour and you might need to solder bullet connectors on and heat shrink. The ESC then has a servo wire with plug that goes to the RX, this powers the RX and receives the throttle signal from the RX back to the ESC. The remaining two wires will be black and red, they connect to the battery with a Deans connector or XT60 or bullet connectors.

Hope that helps!

Oh and if the motor spins the wrong way when you apply the throttle you just need to swap over any two of the three wires from the ESC to the motor.

Edited By WolstonFlyer on 17/11/2012 23:23:29

Edited By WolstonFlyer on 17/11/2012 23:25:21

[Steven Buckingham]

There are other brands out there. Not sure about using HK personally, I'm going to invest a lot of time and emotion into this build, and call me old fashioned, but I'm thinking HiTec servos and an E-Flite (maybe even OS) motor?....

[Tony Richardson]

I have not read all the posts on this thread but to answer Pats qeustion I think the Axi 2826/10 is fine for this model, (if you still have it in good working order) I fly mine ( built from one of Nigels kits back in 2004) on this very setup, 3 cell 3300mah li-Po, the controller is a Jeti 40amp with an after market li-po sensor bought from **LINK** turning a 10x6 prop at full throttle amps are around 38-40, right at the top end of the controller's capacity but it is rated for 60amp burst,s and WO throttle lasts only a few seconds 2/3 is about right and it flys very well at this setting. This model is now 8+ years oldf and showing signs of wear and in need of a new firewall/motor mount, it is still one of my favorites even though I have some that are much larger and run on glow. I still have an un started kit that I may build this winter I have been thinking of using it as a patern for 2/3 more and joining them together to make a flight of Tuc's, time will tell on that one, if I lived your side of the world I would certainly participate but I will be watching the thred with a lot of interest good building guys..

[Phil Winks]

Posted by Steven Buckingham on 18/11/2012 00:52:16:

There are other brands out there. Not sure about using HK personally, I'm going to invest a lot of time and emotion into this build, and call me old fashioned, but I'm thinking HiTec servos and an E-Flite (maybe even OS) motor?....

Nothing wrong with that choice Steve certainly wouldn't consider E-flite old fashioned Though I would point out that even though I'm buying from HK its their UK wharehouse and all turnigy items which I believe to be very tried and trusted

Phil

[Tim C]

Posty turned up with motor from Hong Kong, (RCtimer)

A quick check on the scales verfies the 102gm weight, so its near 60gm lighter than the AXI 2820/10.

I will run some comparative back to back power checks and publish the results.

At a 1000KV its lower than the AXI so should run a simlar prop size.;

 

 

Interestinly it comes with a shaft out the front, most motors these days are the other way round, I have the option of using the case mount prop adapter supplied, or pushing the shaft thruogh, I will probably do that, as otherwise you have to cut the shaft to avoid spiking the lipo in an accident, a sure way to start a lipo fire!!

Edited By Tim @ ModelMarkings.com on 05/12/2012 17:13:02

[WolstonFlyer]

Hi Tim

That motor looks like the right way round and is the same as mine. Mine has the shaft sticking out of the same end as the wires and the alloy prop drive unit fixes to the other end. I understand the E2K pylon racers cut the motor shaft off, also to stop it puncturing the LiPo.

I don't think you can push the shaft through because the groove for the C clip on the shaft would be in the wrong place.

If you want to fix the prop to the motor shaft then I guess you would mount the motor directly to F1 with the shaft sticking forwards and the spinning motor bell facing back into the plane. That way wou would not need to use the X mount or need a former F1a behind the motor.

[Phil Winks]

Tim I have to agree with James here

that motor looks to be the way round everyone of my outrunner motors are with the propdriver mount (if there's a compatible one) on the back ie: the rotating case

I'd be suprised if the shaft can be either pushed through or mounted the otherway round.

the usuall routine, if using a bolt on propdriver, is either to cut, or rather grind of the shaft, or fit a guard tube over it, to prevent any acidental lipo puncture in a hard arrival.

if grinding the shaft of I like to remove it from the motor as grinding even with a dremel could cause enough heat to potentially damage any solder joints in the motor and more likely the adjacent bearing and its associated seals

Phil

[Tim C]

The shaft comes with the extra groove, so you can mount it either way.

I am going to reverse it and do a firewall mount, the front mount on the Tuc was always a weak point, and using a balsa non stressed former, I can actually shape the front end ito a better more scale like shape, Nigels original arrangement was always a compromoise and at a time of outruner infancy when firewall mounting was not the norm

[Phil Winks]

Posted by Tim @ ModelMarkings.com on 05/12/2012 19:17:27:

The shaft comes with the extra groove, so you can mount it either way.

I am going to reverse it and do a firewall mount, the front mount on the Tuc was always a weak point, and using a balsa non stressed former, I can actually shape the front end ito a better more scale like shape, Nigels original arrangement was always a compromoise and at a time of outruner infancy when firewall mounting was not the norm

I stand corected on the shaft Tim however I'd always go for a bolt on propdriver over a collet type prop mount, its a security / engineering thing and it makes it a lot harder to bend the shaft in a clumsy arrival and we all do them occaisionally! well I do anyways lol

Phil