Phil Winks' Tucano

[Phil Winks]

Lucas I have to agree it was a bit of an over generalisation to state "the bigger the bty the longer the fun lasts"

obviously there is an optimum bty/motor/prop combination but then there is a bracket either side of that and it can be quite a large bracket though not always.

also the idea that a smaller lighter bty will, by reducing weight, enable a plane to fly better, is not alwayts a correct assumption as quite a few airframes will lose stability if built to light as much as if built to heavy, Heavy airframes are far less susceptible to spurious air currents that would upset a lighter airframe.

Agreed airframes that have a lower lift/weight coefficient do need to fly faster to stay aloft but there is a down side to a super light floater that stalls at silly low speeds in their inability to handle even moderate wind speeds

In short there is a massive balancing act to be achieved to produce even a moderately good flyer. thankfully there are people around like Nigel who excel at this balancing act and a wealth of tables and other info for those that want to try their hand

 

Phil

Edited By Phil Winks on 06/12/2012 20:57:04

[Lucas Hofman]

You are right here Phil. I have one plane I fly with different batteries dependent on how much it blows. I have to retrim with the heavy battery but it has then more "punch". On a quiet evening however it is a delight to be able to fly slow and gracefull.

With regard to your removable wing design:

1. Would it not be easier (and lighter) to use 4 nylon bolts to fix the wing and do away with the ply plate with the tongue?

2. The balsa in the wing will crush easely due awound the bolt. Should there not be a small ply plate at the underside of the wing to spread the load generated by the bolt?

Regards, Lucas

[Phil Winks]

Posted by Lucas Hofman on 07/12/2012 08:48:45:

1. Would it not be easier (and lighter) to use 4 nylon bolts to fix the wing and do away with the ply plate with the tongue?

2. The balsa in the wing will crush easely due awound the bolt. Should there not be a small ply plate at the underside of the wing to spread the load generated by the bolt?

Regards, Lucas

A couple of good points Lucas the ply tongue also serves as the plate to mount the aileron servo so all we'd lose there is about 18x 40mm of ply . the issue of the bolts pulling through the wing is one that had occured to me and given than the forward area of the wing is med density balsa as opposed to the soft used at the TE I felt it prob would be alright. if anyone has worries on this issue an area of 0.8 mm ply to that area would be sufficient to help spread the load

That said I will amend the drawing to show that

Phil

[WolstonFlyer]

Sorry I am cross posting this on my build and Phil's

Phil has sent me a new version of his removable wing design, Version 3.

http://goo.gl/crZQe

Edited By WolstonFlyer on 08/12/2012 20:19:06

[Phil Winks]

An updated version of the drawings is now at my google drive for all to download if you want. the new parts are again all on A4 sheets so these can be printed on a standard domestic printer at the correct size. also all measurements of these parts are included to allow you to draw them yourselves all dimensions in mm

PDF Link (opens in a new window)

James would you like to copy this to your drive too so all the links stay up to date cheers

Phil

[WolstonFlyer]

Hi Phil

I think you have posted the browser URL to inside your Google drive rather than the shared URL of the file or folder... the link above goes to the Google drive login page.

 

To share a file or folder, inside Google Drive you need to right click on the file or folder that you want to share and choose "Share" from the list of options , then on the popup window where it says "Who has access" next to "Private - Only the people listed below can access" click the "Change" link and on the next screen choose "Public on the Web - Anyone on the Web can find and access"

 

Then click save, this then goes back a screen and there is box titled "Link to share"

 

This is the public URL link that anybody can use to get to the file.

 

Rather than sharing individual files you can share a folder inside your Google Drive and then any file in the folder is made public, this is what I have done and I can just drop new file in the shared folder.

 

Best wishes

Edited By WolstonFlyer on 11/12/2012 21:53:19

[Phil Winks]

Hi James that is what I did not sure what went wrong but lets try again

 

2nd Attempt at PDF link (opens in a new window)

 

Phil

Edit that opens the file directly this time well for me it does lol

Edited By Phil Winks on 11/12/2012 21:59:04

[WolstonFlyer]

That works, direct to the PDF

[Phil Winks]

Thats the plan James every time I update and print to pdf I overwrite the existing so only the most up to date version is available hopefully it'll save confusion do you use the google drive for pc ? I've found if I re-write a document and save it to my google drive folder it auto updates the document on my google drive

Phil

[WolstonFlyer]

I have the desktop software installed, it works really well, as does the Android phone app.

Saving a new version of the PDF overwriting the old file will cause it to sync again and keep the shared one updated.

I just shared a whole folder on my drive so people can see the changes you have made each time.

I have added your new file to the existing ones that I have.

Your plans look really good, thanks for the time you have spent working on this mod 

Cheers

 

Edited By WolstonFlyer on 11/12/2012 22:28:46

[Lucas Hofman]

Phil, you might have written it before but why do you intent to backmount the motor? Front mounting is a lot easier here, or do I miss something?

Regards, Lucas

[Olly P]

Still tempted to build a PSS Tucano, but need to get house and shed sorted first....

[Geoff S]

Posted by Phil Winks on 13/11/2012 21:28:30:

I'm starting this some time before I intend to comitt to balsa as I want to throw my ideas out there for discussion etc.

1stly I've spent a little time this evening going over the plans and have come up with some suggestions for modifications some for ease of construction some to make the model easier to transport and one because as has been disscused in the gen chat thread there is a minor flaw / printing error on the plan that is causing some confusion..

Plan alteration / modification suggestions

1. The fuselage sheet limit marks along the lower edge of the turtle deck are incorrect on the plan and should be one line lower down. basically the triangles filled out blue are the originals and I've redrawn them on the correct line

1. The height of the fuselage sides at F3 taking into account of the curve is 4 ¼” . This is easily addressed by the addition of a ¼” x app 1” triangle of ³/16^” sheet at this point.

Phil

Being lazy, I've ordered, and received a plan pack of both the CNC parts and the extra wood. I've read about the mistake on the drawing and I've compared the fuselage sides with my original May 2003 drwing. The CNC parts match the drawing exactly to the original marks.

So I assume I need to slice 10mm off the top edge of the CNC cut fuselage sides? 10mm is the distance between the two lines on the drawing.

It's interesting that the sides are cut from two 3" wide sheets glued together. Presumably that wouldn't have been necessary had the error not crept in and made the CNC pack a little cheaper.

I wonder if there's any chance that the cutting data will be changed for future orders or are they all now cut?

Geoff

[Geoff S]

I like your idea for a detachable wing and I think I'll do something very similar. I intend to use 2 aileron servos, probably 5 gram ones, so that I can try using spoilerons to slow it down for landing. Nigel says in his original article that the model tends to float on a lot. I fly a Riot quite a lot and I'm surprised how very small servos are quite capable of controlling an aerobatic model weighing about 1.5kg.

Have you thought of using Modelfixings' threaded inserts for the wing bolts rather than 'T' nuts? They'd be much easier to hide. Would 4mm be sufficient?

Geoff

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 14/12/2012 17:58:32

[Phil Winks]

Geoff having not had my hands on the cnc pack I can't really comment but you should remember the side view on the plans does not take into account the extra distance caused by the curvature of the fuselage if you measure up the side of f3 around the curve you'll get the correct size for the fuse side height though it sounds like they've addressed the problem with the cnc pack.

I cant say I'm familiar with model fixings threaded inserts but will investigate on the issue of bolt size hmm hands up I was forgetting that nylon needs to be somewhat bigger than steel oops

Another update has taken place to the drawings and this has been saved to my Gdrive

Link to PDF

Phil

[Phil Winks]

Finally for today I've added my take on the toucan tail decal for those that want to print their own on to either water slide or vinyl, a relitivley easy proceedure with an ink jet printer the relevant vinyl or waterslide sheet and a can of clear gloss acrylic lacquer

Gdrive link for PDF files

Phil

[Geoff S]

Another thought occurs to me about the cranked design of the detachable wing. The aileron torque rods need to be straight and the wing is quite thin so care will be needed or the rod will be below the bottom of the wing in the straight section where they are cranked up for the servo link connection. Having looked at your drawings, Phil, I think it will be OK but it needs to be taken into account.

Thanks for your efforts. I was already thinking of a detachable wing because even relatively small one-piece models can be inconvenient to store and the Tucano isn't a tiny model at 45" ws.

I have just (last week) re-motored my Sonata 'E' glider with one of the NTM Prop drive motors (3536 1400kv) and I think they'll be ideal for the Tucano.  I'm thinking along the lines of a 3542 1000kv. I was also intending to add a 'firewall as you suggest. So thanks again.

A couple of queries:

1 Is there any reason you didn't mount the firewall at an angle rather than pack the engine mount to get the right side thrust?

2 You show the motor cross-shaped mount as having 29mm between the mounting holes. I didn't use the cross mount on mine but I bought one 'in case'. Mine measures about 42mm. 29mm is actually less than the diameter of the motor (35mm). Are you sure that's right?

Once again thanks for making your design available to us all. It's much appreciated.

Geoff

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 16/12/2012 13:05:09

[Phil Winks]

Posted by Geoff Sleath on 16/12/2012 13:03:11:

Another thought occurs to me about the cranked design of the detachable wing. The aileron torque rods need to be straight and the wing is quite thin so care will be needed or the rod will be below the bottom of the wing in the straight section where they are cranked up for the servo link connection. Having looked at your drawings, Phil, I think it will be OK but it needs to be taken into account.

Thanks for your efforts. I was already thinking of a detachable wing because even relatively small one-piece models can be inconvenient to store and the Tucano isn't a tiny model at 45" ws.

I have just (last week) re-motored my Sonata 'E' glider with one of the NTM Prop drive motors (3536 1400kv) and I think they'll be ideal for the Tucano. I'm thinking along the lines of a 3542 1000kv. I was also intending to add a 'firewall as you suggest. So thanks again.

A couple of queries:

1 Is there any reason you didn't mount the firewall at an angle rather than pack the engine mount to get the right side thrust?

2 You show the motor cross-shaped mount as having 29mm between the mounting holes. I didn't use the cross mount on mine but I bought one 'in case'. Mine measures about 42mm. 29mm is actually less than the diameter of the motor (35mm). Are you sure that's right?

Once again thanks for making your design available to us all. It's much appreciated.

Geoff

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 16/12/2012 13:05:09

The crank of the wing has been looked at regarding the run of the torque rods Geoff and it works well. I just felt adding anoter page to show that detail was prob going to confuse things.

I set the fire wall square to ease the construction and using packers allows for some fine tuning if necassary

the cross mount measures 41 mm across the centre those measurements are of the square formed by the hole centres ie: the 2 short sides of a triangle (29 x 29 =841 x 2 =1682 sq root of which = 41 pythagarus )

Many thanks for your imput though as it never hurts to ask these questions I've been known to make mistakes just look at the wing bolt sizes for example lol

I now intend to run as full a set of pages for printing your own decals as I can muster for those that fancy the home printed waterslide route for those that don't I'm happy for Tim@modelmarkings to use any of my artwork he wants though to be fair he's prob got all his own lined up ready

Phil

[Tim C]

I used a 3 part cranked wing on my 1st Tucano, there  is plenty of depth in the centre section for the torque rods.

 

Edited By Tim @ ModelMarkings.com on 16/12/2012 15:48:47

[Phil Winks]

There you go Geoff no new ideas Tim beat me to this one lol along with several others no doubt

Phil

[Tim C]

Idea not mine! , came from Nigel Hawes, used it on a Hawk build I seem to remember, was covered in RCM&E yonks ago.

I am going to do the same this time, but will extend the centre braces a bit, as it give more rigidity to the wing against twist

[Phil Winks]

Tim I hvave to admit the 80mm dimension on my wing brace drawings will prob get some attention as I think your right it will add some rigidity to the wing I'll prob extend it out to 1/3rd of each wing half its a fine balance between what adds rigidity, and what adds un-necessary weight.

Hows your devlopement of decals coming on? are you likely to be doing the giant under wing roundel as used on the 2010 display team markings or do you feel this is better done with solatrim?

Phil

[Colin Hooper]

Phil, I have also been thinking about creating waterslide decals for the Tucano. After a bit of searching I found this site with quite a few sets, one of which may be of interest. They are ok to download if not being used commercially.

https://sites.google.com/site/rjcaviationart/decalarchive

Colin

[Phil Winks]

Thanks for that Colin some good stuff on sheet one indeed

Am I right in thinking there's some israeli markings included there

Phil

[Geoff S]

Posted by Phil Winks on 16/12/2012 15:42:13:

the cross mount measures 41 mm across the centre those measurements are of the square formed by the hole centres ie: the 2 short sides of a triangle (29 x 29 =841 x 2 =1682 sq root of which = 41 pythagarus )

DUH! Considering geometry was my favourite subject at school (is it still studied?) and the proof of Pythagoras' theorem something I admired that should have occurred to me.

I thought there may be sufficient depth in the wing crank but the problem niggled at me last night when I couldn't sleep because of the lousy cold I have and it seemed worth a mention.

Whilst browsing today I ordered a motor and esc from Giant Shark. The motor is an XYH3542 1000 kv and a Black Mantis 50 amp esc. I already have a couple of Black Mantis esc and the programming card so it semed sensible.

I apologise for doubting you So it's 5mm wing bolts then?

Geoff