Where have all the GOOD trainers gone?

[Peter Christy]

Yesterday (Wednesday, 1st May) my club had a bit of a get-together for the first really nice flying day this year. We have one long-standing member of slightly advancing years who has been struggling to master flying for some time. Part of the problem is that the models currently posing as trainers are actually "lead-sleds" that not-too-many years ago would have passed as advanced aerobatic models!

The model he was flying yesterday was sold as a trainer, and it is certainly robust. But there any resemblance to a trainer ends, as it has absolutley no inherent stability whatsoever, and diverges as soon as you take your eyes off it! It also comes in to land far too fast for even a youthful beginner's reactions, never mind a more mature pilot!

What he really needs is something like a Frog Jackdaw, Veron Robot, or - best of all - a Goldberg Falcon, but nobody makes anything like this anymore!

All those models were robust enough to take some abuse, but had enough inherent stability to allow the pilot to relax, and simply steer them around the sky whilst he learned to fly. They were all also capable of aerobatics in the right hands, whilst still giving the pilot time to think.

Someone is going to leap in and say "what about the Super 60", to which I would reply that it was probably a bit too floaty and stable to make a good trainer.

Can anyone suggest a currently available model that would match the benign handling of those 60's models, whilst still being able to cope with the British climate and landing strips?

Pete

[001]

Super 60.

[David Molineux]

If a bit of building isn't an issue then the TN sky 40(SLEC) is very good. Mostly ply so it's tough and I went from never having flown to passing my A within a couple of months with mine. I find it very forgiving too. Only issue I've had is I built mine electric and because of its weight (about 3 kilo's) the flight times are limited to about 5 mins with the 4s setup I have fitted which wasn't ideal whilst learning.

Great model though.

[Martyn K]

I (re) learned using a Tutor 40. I couldn't fault it as a trainer, nice relatively low wing loading, very stable and predictable and you could really slow it down for landing. The only recommendation would be to throw the plasticene undercarriage away and replace it with piano wire/

You can download the plans for the Goldberg Falcon 56 plans from Outerzone however that was sold as an aerobatic trainer IIRC.

Martyn

[Richard Wood]

DB Skyrider (plan pack) or Mascot (kit).

[fly boy3]

Our club uses"Arising Stars" a 46 or even a 40 wiill be ok. Easy to assemble, easy to repair, but above all easy to fly. Cheers

[Martian]

I have a STICK 1500 from Hobby King arf but some work to do looks good not to heavy can be glo or electric allthough with electric requires lipo4s and about 8oz lead. yet to maiden..it was a very modest price and looks as though it will take some knocks the design has been kicking round for years I believe

Martian

[Concorde Speedbird]

A bit off topic, but the best trainer I have ever flown is my Father's own design 'Camera plane' as we call it, as it was designed to carry a camera. Dad built it when he was at Sixth form for a subject, and it is a three channel (R, E and T) high wing model, not very large (about 20 two stroke power), designed to carry a camera to take air shots. These days that is easy, but in the 80's it wasn't! Anyway, we still have it and I learnt to fly on it. Great little aeroplane that has never let us down (and it took some great air shots).

So if you want a good trainer, why not design your own?! I think with someone experienced at your side and reduced rates, these days you can start off with a SLEC Funfly or Wot 4 pretty successfully (although I would still recommend using a proper trainer). Your average ARTF trainer is fine, but if you want something strong maybe an Uno Wot (kit) or SLEC Sky 40.

CS

[ericrw]

Arising Star.

[John Muir]

Somebody was trying to revive the Kamco kit line, including the excellent Kadet trainer, but nothing seems to have come of it. I loved my Kadet. I also had a Mascot (Chart made it back then) and that was lovely as well, so a vote for that. Otherwise, what about any of the many variations of the Sig Kadet. They look like they would fit the bill.

John.

P.S. or a Super 60?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I think the Arising Star and the Boomerang are both good trainers in the classical mode. Stable - but not too much so - and very rugged. The WOT-Trainer isn't bad either - but I feel the elevator is a bit suspect once the learner gets some condfidence and starts "throwing it about" a bit!

One thing I have noticed lately is the increasing number of beginners coming with very small and light (less than 1kg) foamies often with some form of stabilisation or "anti-crash" technology. They seem to think that a smaller model is a good place to start and that "small" means "easy to fly". Well, as we all know, that very often is not the case! And frankly I really don't think that stabilisation technology is the way for learners to go. Its great later - to help you fly something light in the wind given that you can actually fly it you just want a bit of help to stop it bobbing about unrealistically. But it doesn't help beginners in my view - they are better in direct link to the model so they can develop a feel for what's going on.

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 02/05/2013 17:01:10

[edwards flyboy]

Kamco Kadet is a very good trainer,plans are still around .Another good one is the R.M.Trainer plans from my hobbystores.

[Ernie]

SUPER 60

ernie

[Nev Haycox]

I echo what Martyn K says about the Tutor 40. I found it to be a great trainer that can be electrified if you wish.

Nev.

[Bill_B]

Arising Star, brilliant value and great flying attributes.

Or for a Foamie, ST Models Discovery.

[Simon B]

BEB, the Parkzone stabilisation stuff does very little, it just nudges you out of a steep dive. As for foamies, my Super Cub (once I ditched the nasty radio gear) was a great model to learn on, as it was light, large enough (4 footish) and easy to repair with some glue and tape and was about 1.5lb (715g in modern money). I've now been flying for 6 years and I think we'd be foolish to say it's wrong to learn on a foam model, as breaking a large balsa model can be extremely off putting to a beginner.

 

Edited By Simon B on 02/05/2013 18:38:45

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Josip Vrandecic -Mes]

Hi Peter , www.thundertiger.com , WOODEN and ABS series...very usable and classic trainers...

Regards

Joe

Edited By Josip Vrandecic -Mes on 02/05/2013 20:34:20

[lakey]

You could try a Nova 40. Really nice to fly and the bright yellow covering makes it easier to keep oriented. It also converts very nicely to a tail dragger.

[ben goodfellow 1]

i have just built a coachman with my little lad , and i tell you as far as trainers go this things brilliant stable , the right size is a proper balsa ply airframe no foam in it . and land amazingly slow almost walking pace , the only maybe down side from a newbie point of view is you have to build it off a plan but me i think thats a good thing .

[Rich too]

I learned to fly with a Ripmax trainer in the '80's, they were all pretty much the same then and flew on three ch's (I taught myself with a glider on a bungee before the powered trainer, not before I tried the trainer though - disaster on the first flight). These days however, I would think something like the Multiplex Easystar as a first plane, and then straight into a Wot4 foame for a second plane - the foam planes are so foregiving/cheap/easy to repair, you can't beat them?

I always warm up with me Wot4 before I maiden a model..

Rich

[001]

I said 'Super 60' because hundreds of modellers have learnt to fly on one. How does it suddenly become unsuitable as a trainer?

I flew one for about ten years as a sports model. It was covered in Solartex, had large, aluminium hub wheels, which gave it some weight and the big wheels made it easy to take off with and land on long grass. In later years it was fitted (overpowered!) with an Enya 41 four stroke which suited it as a sports model. It would easily deal with any 'sensible' wind.

Many modern 'trainers' have bolt-on wings, which to me is completely wrong, any minor mishap involving trees or the ground leaping out, then, in many cases, the fuselage and wing both get damaged. With elastic bands, number and strength carefully selected to suit the flying style being used, the wing just pops off. Barring heavy impacts.

[andy watson]

An often ignored little trainer I like is the jumper 25.

Struggles to get off grass with the recommended 25, but put a 40 into it and it's a great little plane. Slightly smaller than the similar liiking arising star- but cheaper as well.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by Simon B on 02/05/2013 18:35:20:

BEB, the Parkzone stabilisation stuff does very little, it just nudges you out of a steep dive. As for foamies, my Super Cub (once I ditched the nasty radio gear) was a great model to learn on, as it was light, large enough (4 footish) and easy to repair with some glue and tape and was about 1.5lb (715g in modern money). I've now been flying for 6 years and I think we'd be foolish to say it's wrong to learn on a foam model, as breaking a large balsa model can be extremely off putting to a beginner.

Edited By Simon B on 02/05/2013 18:38:45

Well Simon that may well be true of the PZ version - I wouldn't know I have flown it - but it is most certainly not true of some of the others that I have flown. They do far more than "nudge you out of a steep dive" - then effectively interfer with your ability to turn the model!

On on the question of small foamies - I'm all for them, great fun! But here in the UK - especially on the west coast where we are - I maintain that they are not the best model for a learner. We simply have too much wind. They end up getting buffeted about, zooming when turning into wind (if you can get them to turn into wind!) blown over when taxying out or back, becoming prematurely airborn and being dumped onto the deck at "landing" because the wind is gusting and they are bobbing up and down 5 feet! Now all of this is part of the fun for those of us who can fly a model aeroplane. For someone who is unsure of the feel of the controls and has not yet formed a clear image of "what does what" - this is all a mighty distraction! It not for nothing that the BMFA insist that a model must weigh at least 1kg in order to be eligible for the pilot to do an A-cert with it.

BEB

[Ernie]

Hi Guys, What could you do with your trainer? I could lay the tranny at my feet, and it would fly in circles around my head (it was of course a super 60)

ernie