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Where have all the GOOD trainers gone?


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Chris Foss’ Wot Trainer. I bought one as a weekend practical plane and flew the wings off it. In low rate it was perfect as a trainer, stable, slow enough, docile, yet in high rates with a 46 on the front it would do most aerobics, rolling circles, pitch long knife edge, the lot. I’d turn up at the field with it, have three or four flights to bed in a new engine then recharge the receiver pack while swapping engines so I could bed in another (both for use in a twin, a Ripmax Harmony, another fantastic plane). I’d have another Wot Trainer again as a weekend funhack anytime!

Edited by Ian Whittaker
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2nd for the WOT trainer.

A couple of flying mates bought the Bangood version when it was available and liked it.

I was challenged to build a light weight version for comparison with all machines using FS52 engines.

2 of us put flaps on the wings and managed to get it down to a slow walking pace in zero wind.

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3 hours ago, Andy Gates said:

2nd for the WOT trainer.

A couple of flying mates bought the Bangood version when it was available and liked it.

I was challenged to build a light weight version for comparison with all machines using FS52 engines.

2 of us put flaps on the wings and managed to get it down to a slow walking pace in zero wind.

Would an OS 52 surpass fourstroke comfortably fly a Wot Trainer without struggling?  

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  • 4 weeks later...

My son used a Precedent FlyBoy as his first trainer. Worked well and he easily transitioned onto the Wot 4, which we ran for a while with limited throws.  The Wot4 makes a good docile trainer, with the potential to become more manoeuvrable  and lightly aerobatic later.   Good slow flying characteristics.  Used that to train several people, all pilots of full size aeroplanes as well.   

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  • 2 weeks later...

Returning to RC crashing after many years I bought a "pre-enjoyed" Eflite Apprentice 1.5m span, has a good turn of speed but also lands very slowly and can take  plenty of abuse. I fitted over size wheels for the club grass. Only downside was the Eflite RX,  in breezy conditions it fought against user inputs and couldn't be turned off so I replaced it with a cheap Lemon 7 channel gyro that allowed it to be turned.

 

The club has  Wot 4's foamie version, horrible I just couldnt get on with them.

 

So not cheap but a a good choice for a newbie, but thats all subjective.

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As a training officer I would take issue with the E Flite Apprentice being a good trainer, it's too lightly wing loaded and underpowered so flies too slow and won't fly to windward in any significant breeze.

 

We had a spate of people a few years back who learnt on this and what they universally all found was a lot of difficulty transitioning onto the next model and they were all trained with the the assist receivers substituted for non assist receivers as well.

 

Just too easy to fly to teach you to fly in my opinion. 

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Minded to agree with Philip.   The Apprentice is disarmingly appealing as a complete, ready to go package.   I started with one on my return c. 7 years ago.   I don’t think I ever flew it with assist on.   I can picture very clearly my first “landing”, very calm day, doing circuits.   The best flier in the club was supervising and to my surprise, as it came past at about 20 feet, he encouraged me to gently throttle back and said, if you keep it straight, it will do a very nice landing.   So it did.   200 feet upwind of the strip.   Nevertheless, a solo landing.

 

shortly after that I was assigned to a single tutor who excavated an ancient 6’ span high wing taildragger with an ASP 90 4 S-T which was so old he could not recall how he came by it.   It was thoroughly intimidating after the Apprentice and drank lots of Laser 5 BUT it would fly in wind way beyond the Apprentice’s limit, it was easier to see and like all bigger models it sat better in the air and was just easier to nudge round in circuits, then approaches etc until one day I was let loose with it and awarded the club Green Peg, which is a slimmed down A Certificate meaning competent to solo, albeit with someone keeping a careful eye.   I was so enamoured  of it that I bought a Maxford Mentor fitted with a Zenoah 25, a bigger dead ringer but a high wing trainer/tug which moulders in the outside Mancave.   At least I learned about 2 stroke petrol.

 

so many mistakes with the Apprentice.   LiPos which only now fit my starter.   Deans plugs which are a right faff to solder.  Components which you wouldn’t really want to recycle.   Arguably, a trike undercart.  It’s a bit like learning on a front drive Japanese automatic versus a rear drive manual, easier to pootle round benignly holding up the rest of the traffic but ultimately limited.

 

I don’t think I ever flew the Apprentice again and passed it on to a new trainee when I flew my first Wot 4, which was electric, but I had grasped some of the dark arts of methanol and indeed in the last 2 days I have enjoyed flying an Excelsior with a Saito 100 and a Wotty with Laser 80.   I packed a big electric 8S Saphir both days and never rigged it.

 

Bigger is better, subject to the strip length.   It’s easier to transition from glow to neutrons rather than vice versa.

 

Bearing in mind I was 60 when I returned and had only reached 2 channel Middle Phase 25 years previously, if I had my time again I would have stuck a Laser 90 up front and put the power of the Yeti and Savox servos in it and not wasted hundreds of pounds on a certain mass market Chinese radio system which did cause aforesaid 6’ trainer to crash, in front of my family, subsequently attributed to a duff receiver, replaced foc.   The £20 receiver, not the trainer.   What do engineers say?   Buy once, buy well.

 

I’ve flown smaller trainers, a Boomerang and a leggy Kadet and wouldn’t want to start there.   Nor the T 180 which I built and eventually flew twice 6 years ago.   I saw a trainee progress rapidly on a Wot Trainer last year, flew nicely.   Electric foamies are easy in light wind but a slightly higher wing loading seems to me to be a better long term solution, teaching proper take offs and landings.

BTC

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Back near the start of this thread Ben Goodfellow wrote in May 2013 about a trainer called Coachman which was a Mike White design published in the RCM&E a few years earlier. He spoke highly of it and I too built one and got into Radio Control with it. Mine's still going with its OS 25FX and is a very good flyer. Its only fault for me is its such a good flyer its hard to get down on the strip if there's much wind. I followed Malcolm Holts advice from his writing on Futaba Tx's and used a separate servo on channel 5 to drive the steerable nose wheel. Plenty of expo gives small movement near the center of travel when you're taking off and the sub trim lets you trim the model to track straight.

Although its a robust and good flying model it has to be scratch built and the plans not on Outerzone so I expect there's not many about now.

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Yes, I think that one was the first design and the Coachman a reduced size but it still performed well and has a bit of size in the air. Interestingly the next model I built after the Coachman was David Boddington's Aerobat. I do the wing ribs by making a ply template and, the two wings were exactly the same semi symmetrical size and shape -  the only difference was the spar layout. I lost the Aerobat when I let it get it down wind and throttled back before I turned and of course it spun in. Taught me a valuable, if some what expensive, lesson about the difference between air and groundspeed.

I have enjoyed watching your Mini Super build and think I will have to do one at some stage. I expect an OS 15 LA would do the job.

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5 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

I think the Apprentice is good and has it's place, we pass members out on this type, but with the proviso that flying a heaver I.C type needs further instruction. Some never want to fly I.C anyway and some find them too difficult, as some do flying in wind.

 

That's pretty much what we do. 

 

Yes, using the Apprentice limits the days learners can fly but they don't have to worry about the wind too much - they have plenty to learn as it is. 

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