Ian Southerton 1 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 My first mini jazz had loads of ballast on the nose, but i built it with solid tail feathers and i had over engineered all the linkages so it was tail heavy. I then built a fuselage with an extended nose, this was nose heavy! Anyway, after a crash due to my lack of experience, i've built another standqtd plane with made up tail and plastic snke linkages. i've fitted carbon copy under carriage and 2" wheels, fitted the esc in the top parts of the nose and rx in front of the servos. With a turnigy 2836/8 1100kv motor, it balances fine with a 2200mah lipo against e front bulkhead, a 1300 leaves it tail heavy. With a 10x4.7 prop i get 1200g of static thrust. I've bought a 3536/5 1450kv motor that pulls 1700g of static thrust with the same prop but weighs more so hould help the cog-hopefully! Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Roberts 9 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Thanks Ian and Ian for the additional information. I have decided to go with the HK G15 motor and (hopefully) fine tune the CG by battery positioning. I have just managed to place my order for plans and wood after wrestling with the MyHobbyStore web site for 45 minutes (/sigh). Hopefully I can start the project in a few days time. A couple of questions for those who have already built an electric version please. First, I assume that battery insertion & removal requires the wing to be removed? And second has anyone done a fuselage or canopy modification to enable the battery to be top-loaded to avoid the wing removal chore? Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Posted by Ian Southerton 1 on 23/10/2013 12:48:28: I'm pretty sure i won't get my a cert by then unless we have some amazing weather and i can find somebody to instruct me, however, it's not far at all as i live in solihull, so pending poor weather, will hopefully come and give my support! Ian . Sorry for a sidetrack, Ian doesn't have a public profile so I can't see how to pm this Ian, the Marston Green club is not far from you, look up the contact details on the BMFA web site. Instructors and examiners are available - unless this is the club iyou mentioned as surrounded by trees! That sounds more like the Lucas club though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 "I have just managed to place my order for plans and wood after wrestling with the MyHobbyStore web site for 45 minutes (/sigh). Hopefully I can start the project in a few days time." After being surprised at the cost of the packs from MHS, I decided to just order the plan. This plan price is just about acceptable and postage is cheap - it was delivered very quickly. Am I glad I got the plan first! The design is very simple and there is no need to get pre-cut formers - they are few in number and simple to cut. As already shown on this thread, the wood list is short - I can't for the life of me see why the kit of parts cost so much - there is very little wood needed Edited By Masher on 28/10/2013 13:19:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy6n Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Hi all I built an electric mini jazz a couple of years ago and its probably my favourite small plane to fly although im not the most experienced flyer. The forgiving nature of this plane on low rates is probably why I like it so much. I had to build a lite ply box through the front former to push the battery forward enough to get the cog. It uses a 3s 2200 pack 30a esc. Cant remember what motor its got but its only pushing 190 watts which is more than enough for my timid flying. Oh and it came out at 850 grams. Il see if I can get a pic of it on here if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy6n Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Sorry just realised its actually my profile pic!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Planning on using these servos in my MJ...along with a 700mAh 2S LiFe pack.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Southerton 1 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 John, i have to keep taking the wings off to remove the batts, it's a pain. I made a removeable nose section in front of the canopy on my 'extended nose' version and it was a help. a nice removeable canopy held on with magnets would be excellent! Masher, if you think the wood is expensive, the cowl and canopy were approx £28 delivered. In my opinion, £10 would have been nearer the mark. Bob, you're hit the nail on the head. Will try a pm in a bit. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I'm just finishing a Fusion at the moment fellas so I'm going to be late-in and lurk at bit in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew767 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ian I must say, i too was a bit surprised at the cost of the canopy and cowl.....and the £10 postage!!. Seems excessive for a .15 size model. David is there anything we can do about this....perhaps a deal for the duration of the mass build? Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Roberts 9 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Thanks Ian for confirming the battery location issue. I agree that a removable canopy would be vastly superior. Having to take the wings off before and after every flight gets 'old' very quickly. Do you happen to have any photos of the mod on your extended nose version? As soon as my plan arrives I will try and work out a suitable mod and post my thoughts here. I also agree that the all inclusive plan & wood pack *seems* expensive but I will reserve my final judgement until the packages arrive and I can assess the quantity & quality of what I receive. Again, I will post my thoughts & photos here to help inform others who might be thinking of buying the package. David. What a coincidence. I too have an Evolution Fusion to build and I will shortly have to make a decision about which one to tackle first. As a kitchen table builder I can only have one build on the go..............trying to do 2 simultaneously wouldn't be wise! Cheers, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 They're both quick-builds I guess John but I had started the Fusion so I'll finish that first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Fairgrieve Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Posted by Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 28/10/2013 19:53:40: Planning on using these servos in my MJ...along with a 700mAh 2S LiFe pack.... Steve, I had not thought about LiFe before, but I am willing to try most things at least once. So on the strength of that I have ordered one of these. Going to use these servo`s. And I have finally settled on an Orange RX as the Jazz is not a model that is going to be flown at any great height or distance. Back to the LiFe battery. 6.6 Volts, the RX is good to 9.6 volts, but the servo`s say 6 volts. I wonder if the servo`s will take the little extra voltage in there stride. I do hope so. Also not convinced I can shoe horn it into the front under the tank. Still for £2.10 I have not lost anything. And I have other airframes it will go into. Kev Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin U Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 As a 'returning modeller' I came back into electric, passed my BMFA 'A' cert in Sept and now want to play. As a teenager IC & radio was beyond my financial grasp, I was a free flight flyer with diesel engines. I'm now starting to enjoy IC having converted my electric trainer to IC and am delighted at the bargains available in BNIB & very low use IC. So I'm planning an OS 15 in my MJ and may well build a 2nd fus as electric as I have ESC/Motor in by bits box. My question for the illustrious group regards a tuned pipe. Would it be worth the time/effort/cost? I'm looking for a fun, back of the car flyer that will stretch my flying skills, I'm not after a pylon racer [my eyes don't go that fast and my brain sure does not ] Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Fairgrieve Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Welcome Martin. The original article shows the Mini Jazz on a mini tuned pipe. My original Jazz runs fine on a standard exhaust. If you are after something that gives you about 30% more oomph then look at these. Time = nothing more than bolting the pipe on. Effort = See answer for time! Cost = Entirely up to you! In the original article 1997 the cost of a tuned pipe was £29.99 today`s price. £33.66 Not bad considering. Thanks, you have now got me thinking about one. The wife is not going to be happy. Kev Edited By Kevin Fairgrieve on 29/10/2013 13:21:06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin U Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 My wings are done and I'm about to start the fus [OS15 planned, with possible tuned pipe..] Seeing prior fus breaks on landing plus the fact the 4Oz tank will need some former reduction I'm considering adding some 1mm liteply inside the fus sides. On the grounds that: It won't add that much weight and it is close to the CG. It will strengthen the fus in the weakest area that seems liable to break. By widening the fus slightly it will help the tank fit. Any views? Cheers Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I was going to follow the plan and, as the article says, don't be tempted to beef anything up, it doesn't need it. But I too will be using an SC15 so will be interested to see what others think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Southerton 1 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 John, sorry, I never took any pics of my nose job! Basically, where balsa is curved over the 2 semi circular lite ply formers, i made a lid with a flat balsa bottom and two pieces of 1/4 square balsa to fit inside the strengthening rails on the model. I then used magnets to hold the cover in place. It was a lot less hassle than removing the wings! Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Fairgrieve Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 Martin. I have had the problem of the fuselage breaking in a quite light arrival. So I am going to reinforce the fuz section with some 1/32nd ply. The former F2 is indeed very small after trimming to accommodate my chosen tank. This has however not been a problem previously. I make sure that the light ply is going in the opposite direction grain wise when joining the two F2`s together. Not sure you would need to widen the fuz. It would in my opinion change the basic design. Kev Edited By Kevin Fairgrieve on 30/10/2013 16:55:13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Fairgrieve Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 Posted by Masher on 30/10/2013 08:30:22: I was going to follow the plan and, as the article says, don't be tempted to beef anything up, it doesn't need it. But I too will be using an SC15 so will be interested to see what others think masher. My first Jazz flies well on an SC15. Would no doubt be improved by fitting a pipe! A mate put an OS25 in his.!! It was not pretty and ended in tears. Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Roberts 9 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Thanks for the reply Ian. My plans arrived today and I can visualise exactly what you did from your description. Although I haven't taken any measurements yet it looks as though it will be necessary to construct a mounting box on the front face of F1 in order to get the electric motor into the same position as the IC motor. This should assist with the CG issues. It might also be possible to cut a rectangular hole into F1 to allow the LIPO to be positioned further forward (into the motor box) if necessary. My compliments to HMS on the extremely prompt delivery of the plans & balsa. I don't feel that the "Complete Set" offers especially good value for money. The extra wood pack in particular is, frankly, pretty sparse. Having said that, buying the complete set is a convenient way to get building quickly for those who don't already have a stock of balsa. Photos of what is included to follow tomorrow. Cheers, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin U Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Fus going together tonight and I'll add a little ply in the weakest area F3-3 1/32nd just as your photo. I'll sand away soft balsa from the outside so the overall width will be the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 @ Kev....yes I know what you mean about the higher voltage....all I can say is that I've been using LiFe batteries on "standard" 4.8 to 6.0volt servos for over a year now with no problems.....if you're worried give the servo a good "soak test" before comitting aviation...that should show up any weakness. I will certainly be adding a ply doubler to my fuselage....the fuselage side is very shallow at the top of the wing....bound to break if you're a bit rough with her.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Well, I'm still scratching my head about the tailplane angle of incidence, which is +3 deg on the MAG 227 plan. I have thereore decided to revert to the original 0 deg. setting and reduce the main wing angle of incidence from 3 deg to, say, 0.5 deg to compensate. Any comments from the forum Aerodynamicists would be appreciated. I shall be adding 0.8mm ply fuselage doublers as others have advocated. I plan to use a Turnigy G15 motor and 3S 2200mAh lipo (as I have a few!) The top deck will be removeable to facilitate easy battery fitting, probably incorporating the canopy. I've purchased the moulded cowling but it doesn't look suitable for Electric power, being too narrow at the nose to accommodate the G15 Motor, so looks like it will be a have to be a balsa version after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Further to my previous post - here is a picture of the MHS cowl to help you decide if it suits your powertrain set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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