PLEASE, AEROMODELISM SOLIDARITY WITH SPAIN

[MANUEL HERNANDEZ]

It happens in Aeromodelling that if any member of a club particularly want to federate to participate in federated official competitions, the Federation requires that ALL MEMBERS CLUB MEMBERS AND OWN CLUB federate repeat ALL and I paid for it both quotas determine the Federation, and follow its rules and operating rules, and to make it more difficult not filed a federal license requested by a particular person, the license MUST BE PROCESSED AND ORDERED by the Club, which has all "buttoned up."
Then it is recognized in the Constitution playful or recreational sport, examples: you can play with friends to football without being federated, cycling, tennis, sailing boat, motorcycle, paddle tennis, etc. without. you mark the respective Federations logically the pattern of how you do it, if you are trained or what you can do instead. Obviously the common ratio as ever tells you how you should do (not banned sites and responsibility you have to practice your favorite sport craft).
Aeronautical Federation ONLY intended that all the Aeromodelismo practice, whether any form, have to be compulsorily Land, now the economic situation has forced the government to cut subsidies to associations, which the government intends to play along and federemos and we all go through box.
It will give the paradox of having as a glider r / c I'll have federarme, yet I buy a real one and I can ride on it and use it without any problems.
I want to clarify that the Clubs and most of the modelers that we currently we are not federated, Aeromodelismo in practice the appropriate tracks and have Medicare and Civil (hedged to third parties).

The model airplane is a risky sport, but we know perfectly well that other sports cause many more accidents per year and compared them with ours are insignificant.
Sorry for the length, but my intention is to understand what the current situation in Spain, and we ordered their solidarity with the Spanish modelers and sign this link, whenever an individual is signed will email our demands to the Ministry of Public Works:

**LINK**

Greetings and thanks, sorry for my bad English

[MANUEL HERNANDEZ]

Please ask your Spanish modelers solidarity for the amateur model airplane does not go away in Spain, by the new government controls, that any just our money and help hobbyists.

**LINK**

Greetings and thanks, sorry for my bad English.

 

 

Edited By Pete B - Moderator on 31/07/2014 18:27:37

[Levanter]

Estimado Manuel

Welcome to the forum and thanks for this post. I have spanish residencia and although I speak reasonable spanish I am struggling a bit with the detail.

I think there are quite a large number of European ex-pats living in Spain and there are certainly many who live here in Mallorca who will not understand and therefore may not respond. Is there any possibility of getting a good translation maybe as subtitles on the video in English and maybe German.

I will forward the link to the clubs that I know and to the two model shops that I use in Palma.

Signing up.

Un saludo

[Paul Jefferies]

Estimado Manuel,

Your English is a lot better than my Spanish but still I am not completely clear what you are saying...........

As I understand it, it may become law (or maybe already is law) in Spain that you can't fly models unless you are a member of a club and fly at an approved site.......... Is that correct? And you want us to sign a petition?

Paul

[kevin b]

I think Manuel is trying to target forum members who live (and fly) in Spain. It may not be easy for us to decipher, but I applaud his efforts and commitment. Obviously there are some sorts of restrictions in operation which are causing concern. We should probably all take some interest in this as it is possible that in the future the legals in Brussels, at the United States of Europe may decide to come up with rules which affect all of us. Perhaps one of our bilingual forumites can assist.

kevinb.

[Steve Colman]

Estimado Manuel,

Mi espanol no es bueno pero muchas gracias por este informacion.

No tenido ningun conocimiento sobre esta tema tan importante. Soy asociado con un club de aeromodelismo en Aragon. Pero, disfrutar tambien a practicar aeromodelismo en otros lugares ( la ladera por ejemplo) con mis amigos. Parece que pronto no puedemos disfrutar nosotros aeromodelismo como ahora.

Un saludo.

Paul, you've got it pretty much spot on according to my very poor understanding of Spanish.

Levanter3, I will be doing as you and forwarding the link to my friends, LMS, etc. And sign the petition too.

Steve.

Edited By Steve Colman on 31/07/2014 21:32:16

[Pete B]

Doing a bit of Googling, it seems that the Spanish authorities are proposing that no-one can fly a model unless they belong to the Spanish modelling federation and, as Paul says, it seems to be restricted to approved sites only.

I suppose the parallel would be that you'd be obliged to join the BMFA or SAA before you could fly anything in the UK... scary stuff.

Given the hoo-hah in the USA, and now in Europe, I wonder what has suddenly prompted this? The proliferation of uncontrolled FPV/multicopter flying in urban areas; the increasing number of larger-scale models which could be seen to present an increased hazard, or do the authorities fear that models could be used for nefarious purposes?

I appreciate that you've extended the hand of friendship to Manuel, Steve, but before he takes your reply as a nod to respond in Spanish, I'll just remind everyone that all forum posts have to be conducted in English - there are no exceptions

Pete

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

And you might want to add this House of Lords Enquiry (announced yesterday) into the mix as well Pete.

BEB

[Martin Whybrow]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 31/07/2014 23:10:53:

And you might want to add this House of Lords Enquiry (announced yesterday) into the mix as well Pete.

BEB

Further reading here.

I can't see any distinction between RPAS and model aircraft in any of the documentation.

Edited By Martin Whybrow on 31/07/2014 23:33:10

[kevin b]

Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 31/07/2014 22:59:30:

I appreciate that you've extended the hand of friendship to Manuel, Steve, but before he takes your reply as a nod to respond in Spanish, I'll just remind everyone that all forum posts have to be conducted in English - there are no exceptions

Pete

Aye lad. Thas reet theer.

[Steve Colman]

Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 31/07/2014 22:59:30:

I appreciate that you've extended the hand of friendship to Manuel, Steve, but before he takes your reply as a nod to respond in Spanish, I'll just remind everyone that all forum posts have to be conducted in English - there are no exceptions

Pete

My apologies, Steve.

[Cuban8]

Posted by kevin b on 31/07/2014 21:28:36:

We should probably all take some interest in this as it is possible that in the future the legals in Brussels, at the United States of Europe may decide to come up with rules which affect all of us.

kevinb.

With any luck in a couple of years we'll be rid of them anyway.............no more politics, I promise!

[Pete B]

No problem, Steve

Following Martin's link above and reading the Regulatory Approach PDF on that page, a paragraph in Sec 5.2 seems to be possibly the proposal under which the Spanish issue seems to have been framed:

Transposition of amendment 43 to ICAO Annex 2 into the Standard European Rules of the Air (SERA).

Amendment 43 allows international operations based on the ‘special authorisation’ per Art. 8 of Chicago Convention.

In this case RPAS need:

• Approval/certification of the RPAS and its constituents;

• Approval of the RPAS operator (even if noncommercial);

and

• Licensing of the remote pilot.

The transposition would offer a common basis to EU MS to issue said authorisations. The procedure to apply Art.8 of the Chicago Convention intra-EU would however remain cumbersome in the absence of mutually recognised certifications. Obstacles to the internal EU market would not be completely removed.

Seems familiar, doesn't it? Skimming through those documents, the sole reference to 'model aircraft below 20kg' relates to the exemption from insurance under the Montreal Convention. The document seems to set <150kg as the lowest point at which weight becomes a factor.

So far, I haven't found anything else which recognises the existence of model flying as a distinct entity to be considered in these proposals.

I think this should concern us all, wherever we fly, as these regs are undoubtedly coming to us all some time soon.

I hope the national bodies can negotiate some specific exemptions, otherwise model flying as we know will be seriously curtailed...

Pete

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Are we in danger of over-reacting? From the European Airspace "Roadmap":

This roadmap covers RPA of all types with the exception of model aircrafts (defined as a non-human-carrying aircrafts capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere and exclusively used for recreational, sport or competition activity) and toys. Model aircrafts are subject to specific national regulations, if any. Toys are ruled by Directive 2009/48/EC on the safety of toys and are also excluded. This roadmap does not introduce nor modify any existing distinction between model aircraft and aircraft.

It may well be the case that Spain is introducing some specific legislation in the area of model flying and I'm sure we would all lend our support to any campaign against unreasonable restrictions but I'm afraid I can't quite follow the OP. Perhaps Manuel could confirm that this is specific to Spain?

[AJ]

If you read through the roadmap document it specifically mentions model aircraft & toys which are both excluded from the definition of RPAS & therefore excluded from this legislation.

Andrew

[Pete B]

Thanks, gents - I clearly missed that paragraph.....

We've got absolutely nothing to be concerned about then, have we?....

Pete

[MANUEL HERNANDEZ]

I'll try to explain it in a simple way, your imagine that you play football with his friends in a particular field of legal and soccer for exercise and entertainment, so you do not compete professionally in a league football for federated.

But now comes the government passes a law that dictates:

1º -. Everyone who play football as a hobby or professional ONLY be played on fields that says Football Federation (FA), and therefore must be integrated into ALL the FA and pay your monthly installments.

2º -. Only the FA can tell if you have knowledge and ability to play football, and therefore ALL must also be integrated into the FA and pay your monthly installments.

We modelers hobby and not professionals say that we submit to all safety standards the laws say, but do not have to belong to the Federation (FA) and pay their dues.

It's an easy way to tell them our problem in Spain, so he asked his solidarity and firm support.

 

Tank you.

Edited By MANUEL HERNANDEZ on 02/08/2014 23:14:13

Edited By MANUEL HERNANDEZ on 02/08/2014 23:15:24

[Codename-John]

If you want to watch the Video with subtitles in English -

click where it says you tube in the bottom right corner to watch it on the actual you tube page,

then again in the bottom right corner, between the clock and sprocket, there is a rectangle with lines in, click it,

click "on",

then click the little down arrow where it says Spanish,

click translate,

find English

and Robert is your Mothers Brother

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Manuel, are you asking for modellers outside Spain to sign the petition? I notice that the form shows my location as being in Great Britain so suspect it might exclude postings made from IP addresses from locations outside Spain?

I also noticed the wording of the petition which Google translates to:

Eliminate the powers granted to sports federations in the draft royal decree for the operation of "RPAS" and give audience to non-federal Recreational modelers.

...which doesn't translate to clear English but appears to refer to RPAS being controlled by particular organisations - which I think we've established are not normal sporting or recreational model aircraft. Is it possible that the Spanish legislation is actually referring solely to data gathering autonomous aircraft?

[cymaz]

The hearing on UAS 8/10/2009 defines them as..

 

1.1. First approach to Unmanned Aircraft (UA)

From a definition point, an unmanned aircraft (UA) is a pilotless aircraft, in the sense of Article 8 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, which is flown without a pilot-in-command on-board and is either remotely and fully controlled from another place (ground, another aircraft, space) or programmed and fully autonomous.

Whether the aircraft is manned or unmanned does not affect its status as an aircraft, each category of aircraft having the potential for future unmanned versions. Unmanned aircraft must be differentiated from aircraft used for recreational purposes and designated as model aircraft, unmanned aircraft being used only for commercial or aerial work purposes. Non-power driven aircraft are excluded from the unmanned aircraft family. 

Even though the road map excludes model aircraft, it seems very thin and vague. The Road Map definition of RPA could be written exactly for models. And does an RPA become a toy if you only use it for recreation and sport. I can put a key fob camera on a plane does this then make it an RPA?

Lawyers are rubbing their hands !

Below is an extract from the road map..

 

This roadmap covers RPA of all types with the exception of model aircrafts (defined as a non-human-carrying aircrafts capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere and exclu- sively used for recreational, sport or competition activity) and toys. Model aircrafts are subject to specific national reg- ulations, if any. Toys are ruled by Directive 2009/48/EC on the safety of toys and are also excluded. This roadmap does not introduce nor modify any existing distinction between model aircraft and aircraft.

 

 

Edited By cymaz on 03/08/2014 07:58:09

Edited By cymaz on 03/08/2014 08:00:57

[cymaz]

I've looked up the directive on toys..it runs to 172 pages. Life is too short !

[Peter Miller]

Stop the world. I want to get off!!!!!

[Old Geezer]

It seems that whatever you are doing, someone either wants to stop you doing it, or wants to regulate how, when or where you do it. With the possible exception of knitting, though "They" might take a view as to acceptable length and sharpness of the needles.

[KingKade]

As long as their laws dont come over here......

 

France
• It is illegal to name a pig ‘Napoleon’
• It is illegal to kiss on railways.
• No pig may be called “ Napoleon” by its owner.
• Between 8AM and 8PM, 70% of the music on the radio must be by French artists.
• It is illegal to make photos of police officers or police vehicles, even if they are just in the background.
• An ashtray is considered to be a deadly weapon.

Italy
• A man may be arrested for wearing a skirt.
• It is illegal to practice the profession of charlatanry.
• Striking someone with a fist is considered a felony.

Edited By KingKade on 03/08/2014 08:49:14

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]