Peter Jenkins Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Posted by Erfolg on 09/05/2015 11:03:35: The BMFA is just not reaching significant numbers of the membership. Erfolg - what would you suggest the BMFA should do that would improve this situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Peter The most obvious is make the NFC headline news, not to tuck references to progress or the status away, as a short column, in the depths of the magazine. Potentially the NFC is the most important project that the BMFA has embarked upon in recent years. In my opinion, it does not really matter if it is decided not to progress the current investigation. The very idea could well stimulate discussion and just as importantly, ideas from the membership, Potentially the apathy that I feel exists among the majority, could be converted into greater enthusiasm for not only a NFC ( that is actually viable and desirable) but towards the attitude to the BMFA. If this present project is aborted, it does not stop a better structured and viable facility emerging from the present project. Unlike Colin, I cannot see a NFC changing public perception or even being a focal point to motivate the youth of this generation. I can see the general idea being something that serves the present members of the BMFA very well. Although I cannot provide a comprehensive solution to what I perceive as a general communication issue that the BMFA currently has, I can see that communicating with the membership with respect to this topic is very poor to date. I am more than a little surprised how few seem to actually read our magazine rather than just glance at it. I personally see part of the problem is the incessant banging on with respect to safety. Instead tell the membership as headline news, this is what we are doing, the next steps will be this, to get us here, In this case the NFC, with substance, not a set of slides/pages, which are normally used as support to a presentation.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 As I see it, the BMFA needs to hook new people into joining...using a very simple bait. Risk of being sued and personal claim against them. The BMFA might launch a campaign to attract people by arguing the fact that these people should have cover. They should have protection through insurance. And the BMFA is just the right body to provide such cover. This might get more people in and increase membership. Just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 There's nothing here that I haven't seen or heard before in different situations and there's nothing impossible or fantastical about the good things that can be achieved if the wish and the will is there, as others have demonstrated. As I think I said previously, I have high expectations and I think we all should have. The National Centre should not be a thing in itself, but a platform for a wider strategy. I will agree to disagree with Erfolg, with no disrespect, we can easily bog ourselves down in infinite analysis, but we need to get above that and look for those things that really can make a difference. Therefore I will wait to see what the proposals are and then I will judge them. If they fall short, no one will be quicker than me to criticise, in the meantime, I will wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 That's all we're asking Colin - but proposals before commitment, please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Quite right Martin, exactly what I think and hope is what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 I would think a number of full council members and area committees would like a NFC, if that's not the case how did we ever get to the study stage ? the idea that this would either give us a go ahead or put it to bed makes no sense to me, it was already in bed, you lads woke it up. If you think a Centres a good idea, then sell it us, lets have some Headline posts and something for each member including the Country ones in the post. Yep I know we have it online and in the mag, but the numbers of views and posts are depressing and the magazine stuff looks as though it's not read or no body cares about a NFC. Better use of the model mags would be a start they do get read. We are told we are not committed to anything yet, I want to believe this, but the online poll didn't make good reading. How will we sell using a NFC to the public if we can't sell it to ourselves ? How do you reach the members, we have chippy nights at the field, but don't ask me to ring the order in John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 John Stones 1 - I think you are right about the desire to have an NFC but the overriding issue is: "is it viable?" Some other points. Firstly, just to reiterate, the survey is universally agreed to have been inadequate and, as Manny has confirmed, is not influencing the work of the Feasibility Study. I think I've made this point twice before but people keep quoting the survey as if it is still a key part of the rationale for justifying the NFC - It is not! Secondly, the idea of an NFC is not new but never has it got beyond first base of just talking about it. This time, with funding being made available by Doodsons, the Feasibility Study was launched with a view, once and for all, to get a definitive decision based on real data as to whether this idea is worth pursuing or not. The Feasibility Study will put some practical ideas together so that there is something to take to the membership. Apart from the slide pack on the website on the NFC there is no more information apart from that which is due to be presented to Council on 16th May. Thirdly, if, and only if, Council thinks this is a viable idea will it be put to the membership. There is no decision being taken to proceed with the NFC at the coming Council meeting but a decision not to proceed is possible as is a decision that more information is needed in order for Council to form a proper opinion. If Council thinks the idea has legs, it will then be put to the membership so that everyone can review it and help to make the decision either to proceed or reject it. Fourthly, the issue of whether to continue with the purchase of Laws Lawn Farm will also be closely scrutinised by Council. The key issues will be affordability and risk. Remember that Council delegates are, by the fact that the BMFA (a Company Limited by Guarantee) has a requirement in its Articles, for Council members to be also Directors of the BMFA. As such, Companies Act applies as do normal Directors responsibiliities such that any decisions taken that are shown to be reckless opens the Directors to legal action and financial liability. I don't think in those circumstances that any Director would take a "courageous decision" as Sir Humphrey might have put it. Finally, as regards publicising the information, there is a perfectly good website run by the BMFA as well as its magazine to publicise the information. I would expect Areas to ensure that their Clubs are informed via Area Meetings and the Club Secretary so that their Club members can be told where they can find the information e.g. BMFA website or the next issue of BMFA News. Manny has said that he always mentions the NFC when he visits Clubs as well. Commercial magazines, like RCM&E, can also report on this information and no doubt the BMFA may make a standard package available to the modelling press to publicise the matter. However, I don't think it unreasonable to expect members, who all receive a copy of BMFA News to read about the NFC in that medium or go to the BMFA website and read it there. If Club members are informed by their Clubs, and have information provided by the BMFA and they still can't be bothered to give their views, then other members who choose to will inform this decision. Cymaz - interesting point worthy of consideration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetenor Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Just assuming that BMFA can afford to buy land and convert it for use as a NFC what of the future. How will they generate income in order maintain and develop the site. The entrance fees for one meet a year would not be enough.In years past many Nats were flown from R.A.F. dromes. How this was arranged and financed I do not know but even if a drome was available would it not be possible to lease or hire a service or even a private airfield for the required length of time. I am thinking of a museum type drome like R.A.F. Cosford which would be fairly central for most people.. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree or perhaps just barking mad . You decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 No , not mad, onetenor. I mentioned that in a post. They have to consider the point. The farm is bought and all the bmfa money is used up, including reserves...then what? They can't build a thing, they have no money. The fancy looking building, offices etc might cost a million. They resell the land for a profit...no one is certain that this might turn a profit. The site is not big enough for the nationals. Barkston Heath was 5 x bigger as I understand. The membership is going down. So the bmfa is between a rock and a hard place. I'm for the NFC but I cannot see how they can make it viable. The idea as put forward today is neither one thing or the other. The bmfa if it wants new offices could sell Chacksfield and move into larger rented offices suites in an industrial estate. For now it should refocus efforts into increasing the membership, attracting all the new foamy fliers and park fliers by providing insurance cover, of which many, I suspect, don't. Some radical thinking needs to go ahead. Why does the bmfa see the need for a huge event like the nationals. It's a great show but does it attract new members? Does it reduce the average age of fliers? Do they need to hold all the flying disciplines at the same time...no. It's not written in tablets of stone. Holding more events around the country would get the bmfa closer to the ordinary member who cannot drive up to the nationals or is not confident enough to fly at it. Does it make the bmfa any column inches in the national press for the good of model flying ? I have yet to see this. The ordinary man in the street does not know what the body does...just that those damn noisy planes or dangerous drone could down an aircraft are a menace, headlines that scream from the national press. This year there has been a lot of 70 year celebration for VE day. I have only seen one model display celebrating the fact. The bmfa has not said a word on this. People, what ever their age, love the Spitfire and Lancaster and other WW2 planes. The bmfa has been strangely silent. They missed a trick here. An event organised with WW2 planes would attract the ordinary man in the street. It might not have, we shall never know. The bmfa does a lot of work quietly behind the scenes...wrong the bmfa should be shouting from the rooftops on what it does. I have seen posts from bmfa committee members about this topic. Has the top brass posted anything on here? Has the chairman or chief executive posted explaining to the ordinary modeller what the vision is...? So misinformation and the rumour mill start. What is the long term plan of the body over 5 years? 10 years? No one knows. How do they want the bmfa to look in the next few years...what's its purpose and goals? No one knows. The local club flier will just see the body as a means of insurance cover ,no more no less. They will turn around and say (to paraphrase Monty Python..)"What have the bmfa ever done for us?".....you can continue the sketch yourselves. Just like the bmfa....? Edited By cymaz on 10/05/2015 07:27:32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDD15 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 You know what, let's just do it!!!! Well done the BMFA for taking this bold and exciting step. You want an extra 10 or 20 quids for the fees - You got it. You want coffee mornings, cake bakes etc. to raise funds - You got it. You want a volunteer to do some manual/maintenance work - You got it. You want a bequest from when I've gone to help keep this [lace going - You got it TOGETHER we can really do this! Cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Extra £10/20 for bmfa.....I'd pay that. There's a lot who wouldn't! "I'm never going there..so why should I pay for it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I tend to be with Ian, as long as we have a business plan which sets out ambitious objectives, describes how they will be achieved, how the resources will be made available and identifies how this will be used as a means to generate a positive income stream that will benefit and strengthen our hobby. It is all achievable I think and the prospects are exciting. It's not about what happens, it's about what you make happen and I'm looking forward to seeing a costed proposal that clearly demonstrates all of this. It needs to fire the imagination and give us something that we all want to get behind. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Colin, it seems to me that the bmfa have no business plan. From what I understand and have seen/read outside this forum there is no money left after the farm is purchased. There is only " well if it doesn't work, we will sell the land" There is no figures (hard and fast or otherwise) costing on how much the building will cost, how long it will take or even a time frame of proposed phases of construction. There is still the issue of planning permission and change of use. There is the unresolved problem of RAF Whittering and the nearby parachute school. The bmfa have a can of worms in the left hand and a tin opener in the right hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I don't think I'm disagreeing with anyone, I'm just saying what my expectations are. If I don't see a chance that they will be reasonably fulfilled, my position will reflect that. I'll reserve any opinions about professional competence until I see the results of the efforts of those tasked with doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 O.K Peter thanks for the reply, I harped back to the survey because in terms of communication it was damaging to The BMFA leadership and as club secretary I would rather not point it out to our members it gave them the hump. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Two of the issues mentioned I saw as possible directions that the BMFA would probably put forward as part of a ny funding solution. So I asked the question as part of feeling out club member attitudes to the broad issues. The idea that an increase in subscriptions was not received enthusiastically. I suggested that it could be say, £5 or £10. For some, those who fly very little it was a totally unacceptable, potentially enough to stop their involvement with our club. Others just did not like the idea at all. I also have put forward the idea of a bequest, say as a one off payment or as part of their estate bequests. There was one who thought it was viable, the rest either said a categoric no, one laughed. One joked, if I put that to my wife, my demise could be imminent, with defiantly no money. Speaking for my self, I pay £30 a month to Cathod and also make payments to Marie Curie, of generally £50 per annum and also act as a collector. I would not make any payment, mainly because there are many other better uses for our families money that helps those in need. As for the NFC, well i support a field as a general proposition, yet remain to be convinced by all the reasons that Cymaz, John Stones and others have put forward. I could be easily sold on fields in each of the regions to serve all BMFA members. If I lived in the Midlands, I would be very enthusiastic as this would be the first field, even it tuned out to be the only one. The idea of a field in all regions was thrown up as a suggestion by quite a few members. Their thinking being, it would support regional competitions of all disciplines and would encourage greater involvement of members as a observers. Now ideas of this type has re-enforced my believe that ordinary members are every bit as visionary, with ideas as some Oracles. Yet my concerns always return to immediate and long term funding, a definition of what the NFC is as a concept, , rather than a catch all phrase. Then where is the Business Plan and so on. Finally where are the views of ordinary members in this process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Posted by john stones 1 on 10/05/2015 11:39:14: O.K Peter thanks for the reply, I harped back to the survey because in terms of communication it was damaging to The BMFA leadership and as club secretary I would rather not point it out to our members it gave them the hump. John While we are explaining references to the survey, mine was in direct response to the previous post having linked to it as an example of how well the project team was engaging with the membership! If it's now accepted that the survey was badly flawed, why is it still being featured on the BMFA website? Edited By Martin Harris on 10/05/2015 17:15:02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 **LINK** Items 10 and 11..........what's going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Posted by Cuban8 on 11/05/2015 18:34:46: **LINK** Items 10 and 11..........what's going on? Just a typo I guess, they seem to have mangled the numbering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 The numbering I guessed, but it was the contents of items 10& 11 that puzzled me. Have I missed something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I guess it means that the purchase of the farm will go ahead until the last minute. When it might be called off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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