Ron Gray Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I’m glad you said that Martin, despite several similar replies saying the same, Erfolg seems to have, once again, ignored facts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 20 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said: Easy, tax them and planes that use more untaxed fuel in one hour than I do in 10 years of driving a Diesel that has a super tax on it. And then tax the holidaymakers that fly halfway around the world for a week in the sun. Airliners like commercial shipping (and fishing boats) don’t pay UK VAT on their fuel. It’s a global market so if they did there wouldn’t be any UK airlines, or jobs. If you think the fuel should be taxed globally, tell that to ICAO. However, ‘holidaymakers that fly half way round the world for a week in the sun’ are taxed here in the UK. Air Passenger Duty raked in £4500 billion to the UK treasury last year. If air travel is to be greener then airlines need to buy more efficient aircraft, geared turbofans as one example, which is an expensive long term commitment. More taxes is just a disincentive to do that and won’t make the world a greener place. Finally, making comparisons with your diesel car is a bit fatuous for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 8 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: The current petrol engined Vauxhall Astra estate is considerably heavier than either! From what I've read 2024 1.2 Astra estate around 200kg lighter than mg5. But then I don't read EV magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 4 minutes ago, Learner said: From what I've read 2024 1.2 Astra estate around 200kg lighter than mg5. But then I don't read EV magazines. Which just shows how inefficient internal combustion is, a BEV will go 3 to 5 miles per kwh of energy where as a lighter ICE petrol doing 60mpg is equivalent to 1.5 miles per kwh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 minute ago, Frank Skilbeck said: Which just shows how inefficient internal combustion is, a BEV will go 3 to 5 miles per kwh of energy where as a lighter ICE petrol doing 60mpg is equivalent to 1.5 miles per kwh. My car has nothing to do with kwh and is efficient enough for me thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 minutes ago, Frank Skilbeck said: Which just shows how inefficient internal combustion is, a BEV will go 3 to 5 miles per kwh of energy where as a lighter ICE petrol doing 60mpg is equivalent to 1.5 miles per kwh. True, and never in question........................ whereas weight, tyre wear, road damage, infrastructure capability, charging practicalities, reduced fuel tax income, reduction of incentives, subsidies, are all factors under debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 minute ago, GrumpyGnome said: True, and never in question........................ whereas weight, tyre wear, road damage, infrastructure capability, charging practicalities, reduced fuel tax income, reduction of incentives, subsidies, are all factors under debate. Don't start them off!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Heavier electric cars have caused all the Potholes.... like Ken Anderson....ne.....1... motoring dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, Learner said: From what I've read 2024 1.2 Astra estate around 200kg lighter than mg5. But then I don't read EV magazines. Neither do I but I did a like for like google search... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 28 minutes ago, ken anderson. said: Heavier electric cars have caused all the Potholes.... like Ken Anderson....ne.....1... motoring dept. Doubtful Ken - I'd imagine that lorries and trucks do the most damage to the road surface and create most potholes. That is based on the observation of driving on many dual carriageways, where the left hand lane is often in very poor condition, compared to the right hand lane. That left hand lane will tend to see more traffic and a disproportionate amount of the HGV traffic especially. The number of heavier electric cars is a tiny fraction of the number of ever larger lorries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: Neither do I but I did a like for like google search... Ah Google it must be true then! I looked at Vauxhalls official website. And as your keen on comparisons perhaps compare the vehicle weights between 1.2 turbo astra estate and electric astra estate. Edited July 5 by Learner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Figures can be bandied about and found to fit most viewpoints so there’s little point in exchanging stats. I’ve really only pointed out that I changed from a diesel to a similarly sized electric vehicle and the kerb weights were virtually the same which in my opinion serves to illustrate that the “damage to roads” claims have dubious value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said: Figures can be bandied about and found to fit most viewpoints so there’s little point in exchanging stats. When they don't suit you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engine Doctor Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) Very difficult to win arguments about pro's and Con's of EV's as already pointed out stats can be made to fit whatever your agenda. I did however meet a gent this week while away on a break who has a Jaguar E pace. He loves the car ....but, he has range anxiety whenever he travels any distance. He regularly travels from kent to Southampton has to stop for a charge at least once and pay exorbitant price for the privelidge ! Possibly why EV sales have stalled around the world.. or is that all lies ? Sort the range , battery life and safety and infrastructure and pricing then ill be convinced. Edited July 5 by Engine Doctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) Canterbury to Southampton is 135 miles, he has to stop to charge, does he mean once in the return route or once each way? If the former then I would think that acceptable and even on a supercharger it would be the same cost as petrol (based on the last time I used one), if the latter then I find that strange, I went to Buckminster last Saturday which was a round trip of 230 miles, didn't recharge, got back home and range said I still had 50 miles left! Edited July 5 by Ron Gray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 17 minutes ago, Ron Gray said: Canterbury to Southampton is 135 miles, he has to stop to charge, does he mean once in the return route or once each way? If the former then I would think that acceptable and even on a supercharger it would be the same cost as petrol (based on the last time I used one), if the latter then I find that strange, I went to Buckminster last Saturday which was a round trip of 230 miles, didn't recharge, got back home and range said I still had 50 miles left! Just out of interest, if your travelling from home and back further than your range allows, what part of the journey would you generally top up. I'm terrible for passing petrol stations and saying I'll get it at the next, especially if I think next would be cheaper. Sometimes I end up with range anxiety even with fuel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 The EV fraternity will always come out on top, while I am on the beach 800+ kilometres away (diesel of course)from home having a swim and an ice cream in the sun, they have to do something while they are charging their battery, like telling us how cheap their overpriced cars are to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Very few lorries use our road, potholes aplenty, loads of big vans I.C, delivering folkses goodies they bought on tinternet, this thread get dafter by the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, Learner said: Just out of interest, if your travelling from home and back further than your range allows, what part of the journey would you generally top up. I'm terrible for passing petrol stations and saying I'll get it at the next, especially if I think next would be cheaper. Sometimes I end up with range anxiety even with fuel! I use either the inbuilt system that tells me where I need to top up and the stations available or one of the apps that shows station locations. I haven't used public charges that much but when I do I try to use superchargers as they are so much quicker and as I said above they work out about the same cost as petrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 52 minutes ago, Learner said: Just out of interest, if your travelling from home and back further than your range allows, what part of the journey would you generally top up. I'm terrible for passing petrol stations and saying I'll get it at the next, especially if I think next would be cheaper. Sometimes I end up with range anxiety even with fuel! It's not something that I've had to do very often (3 times in 18 months) but with an accurate picture of the mileage achieved on the day, I've simply topped up at a convenient point with enough to get home with a small reserve so that the expensive (i.e. roughly equivalent to a higher end IC mpg) fast charge is minimised. It's very easy to monitor whether the reserve is remaining constant. Obviously, the practicalities vary with individual usage patterns and I prefer to respect individual preferences and circumstances rather than try to justify my personal choice of vehicles - and in case I've been mistaken for a tree hugger, my other car is petrol powered, does less than 20 mpg and wouldn't pass any emission test ever legislated since it came off the production line in 1954. It is green though - Land Rover Bronze Green... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said: while I am on the beach 800+ kilometres away That's not bad, 500 miles without stopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Well Tesla have just given me 15,000 miles of free supercharging when I bought a new Model 3 so I won't be paying for fuel for about two years! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Just out if curiosity, how do they know when you've reached your 15k miles worth? Wet fuel, give or take a few % is pretty standard in an area so they can calculate the monetary value...... 15k miles from a pay-as-you-go public charger sounds MUCH more expensive than at home overnight charging..... or can they track your actual mileage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kearsley Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Just now, GrumpyGnome said: Just out if curiosity, how do they know when you've reached your 15k miles worth? Wet fuel, give or take a few % is pretty standard in an area so they can calculate the monetary value...... 15k miles from a pay-as-you-go public charger sounds MUCH more expensive than at home overnight charging..... or can they track your actual mileage? I think they apply a figure of so many miles per kWh and use that as the measure. I'm not sure of the conversion factor but say it's 3 miles per kWh, then they're giving you 5,000 kWh. Obviously they know how much charge you put in each time. It's almost instant as well - I charged at a supercharger yesterday and it updated my total miles remaining within a few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 22 minutes ago, Ron Gray said: That's not bad, 500 miles without stopping. I used to do over 1.000 without stopping, 40 years ago, Le Grau du roi ( France) to Calais, English breakfast on the crossing, and Southend in the same 12 hours, and in a French Van, petrol/gas. Maybe a 48 hour trip in an EV, with charging, customs and stopping every 2 hours,,,😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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