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Electric Cars.


Cuban8
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Posted (edited)

What criteria are others using to determine the choice of EV? The reason I ask is because one of mine used to be range, it had to be 300 miles, but then I asked myself why, I don’t do long journeys on a regular basis so is that really important. I know that 2 or 3 times a year we may travel distances of say 150 miles but we can always plug in when we get there (family) but as my wife says, if we were concerned about charging then we could always hire a (IC) car for such trips. 
 

On a similar note, the general infrastructure for charging points across the country, or lack of them, was the thing holding me back, but as I’ve just said we no longer do country traversing trips so would I really use public charging points that much?

Edited by Ron Gray
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For me - and this is the first time considering this - then range is important, since my two most frequent journeys are a 100 mile round trip to work, mostly motorway with the last ten miles being urban and my trip to my old club field, maybe 3 times a month, which is 160 miles round trip, mostly A and hilly A roads, with a bit of dual carriageway. My Mondeo diesel eats those up for fun and, at the moment, carries the models I want to carry.

Increasingly though I see urban restrictions on diesels coming, have been highly impressed by the effectiveness of air source heating for my workshop and am investigating solar panels to feed that, with the thought that could also be an efficient means of providing greener energy for transport into the bargain. I can see the attraction of a more integrated energy solution in the coming years and have put the capital project team onto researching the feasibility ;).

 

This thread has been very informative to me, in that even above range, for my requirements, is load carrying capacity - my car is there to primarily transport models and get me to work and back. Another unrelated factor is a heated front screen - the biggest determinant in vehicle choice for me - I'd be very reluctant to ever purchase a vehicle without a heated front screen, which definitely limits the choices.

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Posted (edited)

Now retired from 30k pa I like Ron may occasionally do a 400 mile round trip a couple of times a year with 99% less than 200 per day. So my criteria is real world 250 range allowing for battery degradation over 10 yrs, flat area with seats folded, length to get a 6' fuselage on a stand in (wings divide at this size) which will be in the region of 1750/1800 cu ft. Prefer no highly sloped hatch reducing practicality. 2 wheel drive is fine as would 150-200 bhp.

My Mondeo diesel estate meets all the above and should be good for another 5yrs+ so by then hopefully the manufactures will have expanded from premium executives into practical vehicles. Green badge, of course but as someone already mentioned the greenest option is the one you already have. Also not convinced the batteries now in service will be the mainstream chemistry settled on in the future.

 

+1 for heated front screen - one of the best safety aids added - forget lane assist etc. just get a better unobstructed view.

 

Edited by Ace
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My criteria are very similar to Ace and Leccyflyer's - about 250miles range and a good 6ft of load space behind the front seats. However I also have a history of back trouble which means that I can't cope with the relatively low seating in estate cars. When you look at the higher body style SUV-style cars, the seating suits me much better but it's much harder to find the load length. This is why I homed in on the Kia Sorento. I've yet to come across a comparable EV but that should hopefully change in a year or two.

 

Incidentally, last time around, I not only took an Alpina wing around the dealers as a load length gauge but also a one-piece float plane to check the tailgate aperture. The enormous Volvo XC90 swallowed up the 2m wing with no trouble but there was no way the floatplane would go through that surprisingly narrow tailgate opening. The disbelieving look on the salesman's face as I loaded the model back into our humble Ford S-Max more than made up for the disappointment!

 

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Yes, electric cars powered by electricity stored in the battery...

 

But how to get that electricity into the battery and how to put electricity into the grid...

 

Sooties magic wand ?

 

And, can poorer people go electric car ?

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5 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

For me - and this is the first time considering this - then range is important, since my two most frequent journeys are a 100 mile round trip to work, mostly motorway with the last ten miles being urban and my trip to my old club field, maybe 3 times a month, which is 160 miles round trip, mostly A and hilly A roads, with a bit of dual carriageway. My Mondeo diesel eats those up for fun and, at the moment, carries the models I want to carry.

Increasingly though I see urban restrictions on diesels coming, have been highly impressed by the effectiveness of air source heating for my workshop and am investigating solar panels to feed that, with the thought that could also be an efficient means of providing greener energy for transport into the bargain. I can see the attraction of a more integrated energy solution in the coming years and have put the capital project team onto researching the feasibility ;).

 

This thread has been very informative to me, in that even above range, for my requirements, is load carrying capacity - my car is there to primarily transport models and get me to work and back. Another unrelated factor is a heated front screen - the biggest determinant in vehicle choice for me - I'd be very reluctant to ever purchase a vehicle without a heated front screen, which definitely limits the choices.

Range - my experience in 5.5 years of driving both 30 and 40 kWh Leafs. Bear in mind both these vehicles contain roughly one gallon of petrol in terms of energy. Warning YMMV!

 

Range is the most difficult item to consider when buying an EV. People tend to focus on how far you can go, I think it is more helpful to think of it in terms of a round trip to your most frequent “long range” destination.

 

When driving an ICE vehicle you are not as aware how much environmental factors are lowering your mpg, and you’re  carrying so much spare energy it is almost irrelevant. In comparison in an EV with its better metering and monitoring you become very aware.  As an example one trip in the 30 Leaf took 30% of the battery one sunny winters afternoon. Coming back that evening in “son of Beast from the East” with 50mph headwinds and driving sleet and rain the car used 60%! It would have been the same for any ICE but you would only have noticed when you had to pay at the pump.
 

In my case  my daily commute is 16 miles, no problem. Longest frequent fortnightly round trip is 110 miles, not quite so easy in 30 kWh Leaf bearing in mind the above.40 kW Leaf no problem.
 

If you can easily charge at your destination that changes the equation again. 
 

Zap Map is your friend for long distance. It is well worth having a look at what chargers are in the area your travelling to. think most people on here would be surprised at just how much charging infrastructure is around.


In summary buy the smallest battery you can with the fastest charge capability.

Would I go back to ICE, and give up my near silent, super smooth,  instant torque magic carpet? Not even if you paid me.

HTH

idd

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Posted (edited)

Yes, range and charge points.

 

Local supermarket car park has two ev charge points. The attached fuel forecourt has 12 pumps, 24 if you count the diesel hoses as well, but 12 useable pumps in reality.

 

All 12 where in use when I put £20 of diesel in the pug, and there where ques...

 

Big supermarket roof, no solar panels on it, large Forecourt canopy, no solar panels on it.

 

Menai striats with very good tidal flow, no hydo electricity plant...

 

Does any supermarket roof have any solar panels in your area ?

Edited by Rich Griff
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Everyone's criteria in buying a car, electric or IC, will be different I suppose.  What made me choose electric was the sheer ease of driving - no gearbox, no chance of stalling, instant torque etc - and the running cost.  The reason I chose the Tesla was:

 

1) Performance - 0 to 60 in 3.2 seconds is quite startling.  And it does it without fuss or noise.

2) Charging infrastructure - Tesla's superchargers are ultra-reliable, fast and becoming more widespread by the month

3) OTA updates which bring new features on an ongoing basis. (and sometimes break things!)

4) Range - realistically, around 270 miles, but obviously depends on many factors

 

On the downside, Tesla's quality control is abysmal.  I was lucky and had no issues but stories of badly aligned body panels, water-filled lights etc in brand new cars are not unusual.  Also, if you bought a Tesla thinking it would soon be driving itself, forget it.  Elon's promises and predictions are utterly worthless and anything resembling self-driving, in the UK at least, are years if not decades away.

 

Running costs:

1)  Road tax - £0

2)  Routine servicing - no routine maintenance indicated by Tesla but obviously brakes need an occasional check, plus A/C regas.

3)  Fuel - approx 1.5p per mile

4)  Insurance - £310 at last renewal, but I am ancient!

 

My largest model is a Hangar 9 Spitfire, at about 82 inch wingspan, and that fits in the car without issue.

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13 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

Does any supermarket roof have any solar panels in your area ?

Off topic but not to my knowledge, there could be a reason of course, do some research start a new topic and let us know what you find.

 

Steve

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Forgot to mention the pre heated front screen is not so necessary as most ev will allow you to pre condition car from phone app or on car timer. Very nice on winter morning.

Idd

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Those are great posts BTW guys - I knew that in this forum there would be a recognition of the most important things for a modeller's vehicle and it's increasingly looking like waiting a few years before taking the plunge to EV is going to be prudent.

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29 minutes ago, Tim Kearsley said:

3)  Fuel - approx 1.5p per mile

 

With the growth in electric causing the government to lose 80p per liter in (total) tax, it won't be long before road pricing changes that. That equates to approx 7p per m. True its still way cheaper than ICE but comes at a upfront premium price for the moment.  Change is coming that is for sure - how quickly now there is the 64,000$ question.

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Is it true that Tesla cars must be serviced/repaired by Tesla workshops, else warranty is "void". ?

 

These are several Tesla's seen locally, so an opportunity for a Tesla service worship locally ?

 

Maybe not yet but something to think about perhaps.

 

Tesla's do look very nice I must say. Aerodynamically slippery, light wieght bodies with built in pv roof/body panels ?

 

PV cell technology is advancing all the time.

 

I just do not have the money to go electric car, new or used.

 

If I won the lottery, I would go electric car, the whole hog, as we have south facing roofs.

 

The sun does shine now and again in Snowdonia, but perhaps 

Hydro would be more realistic as it rains a lot here.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Thanks Ian - by precondition I guess that you mean you have the heater come on 15 minutes before you want to use the car?

No problem. Yes that's what I mean but it also works for the Aircon.

 

Obviously I cannot be too specific as car choice is very personal but I think the Kia eNiro may suit your needs. Very capable vehicle. Also be aware MG5 is due an update this coming November. MG's previous update on their MG ZS SUV was very significant so the 5 update hopefully will be good to.

 

Cheers 

Idd

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by IDD15
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I hadn't heard of the MG before reading this thread and so looked at a few review articles and videos -it's a bit smaller than the Mondeo from what I've seen and the rear seats don't fold as flat. I'll take a look at that Kia eNiro now that you mention it. Thanks.

 

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1 hour ago, Rich Griff said:

Is it true that Tesla cars must be serviced/repaired by Tesla workshops, else warranty is "void". ?

Tesla state that if you choose to have faults repaired at a non-Tesla centre then future problems may not be covered under warranty.  Interestingly, they also say that warranty is not affected if you don't have any servicing done, but then they also don't recommend any routine servicing!

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Tesla, interesting....

 

So they don't invisage the fact that brake pads can "corrode" in place causing pads to stick solid, or enough to stick on, as well as corrosion of the metal backing causing the friction material to "lift" and come off, not to mention severe "sticktion" and/or corrosion of the brake caliper piston due to lack of "excercise" and movement when the friction brakes are applied ?

 

Riding the m/c I see all sorts of bits of car all over the road. Even found a brake pad steel back plate one day that had friction wear were the friction material had been.

 

How the hell did that end up on the road, right by a roundabout.

 

Always seeing bits of coil springs...

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Posted (edited)

The 'bits' that I see foll off of cars especially on round a bouts are beer bottles cola tins macdo sacs and the odd fag end as there aren't any ash trays in cars any more, although last week I did see a big metal used brake pad,,,

 The odd 9v and Duracell battery, what cars did those fall off of ?.?

Edited by Paul De Tourtoulon
9v
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8 hours ago, Trevor said:

I've yet to come across a comparable EV but that should hopefully change in a year or two.

 

Have you tried the Ioniq 5 yet? Might fit your bill. A proper quality controlled family capable car, it's the first EV I've been impressed with in terms of interior space.

 

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Yes, I liked the Ioniq 5 (and the Skoda kodiaq) but both fail my load length criterion. They may work if you’re prepared to forgo the option of carrying a front passenger or have wings protruding between your heads. I’ve managed to avoid this on the last three cars (Alhambra, S-Max and Sorento) and hope to do the same when I finally make the jump to an EV. The Sorento runs out of warranty next year but, with just over 40000miles on the clock, there’s no real rush to change it.

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14 hours ago, IDD15 said:

Range - my experience in 5.5 years of driving both 30 and 40 kWh Leafs. Bear in mind both these vehicles contain roughly one gallon of petrol in terms of energy. Warning YMMV!

 

Range is the most difficult item to consider when buying an EV. People tend to focus on how far you can go, I think it is more helpful to think of it in terms of a round trip to your most frequent “long range” destination.

 

When driving an ICE vehicle you are not as aware how much environmental factors are lowering your mpg, and you’re  carrying so much spare energy it is almost irrelevant. In comparison in an EV with its better metering and monitoring you become very aware.  As an example one trip in the 30 Leaf took 30% of the battery one sunny winters afternoon. Coming back that evening in “son of Beast from the East” with 50mph headwinds and driving sleet and rain the car used 60%! It would have been the same for any ICE but you would only have noticed when you had to pay at the pump.
 

In my case  my daily commute is 16 miles, no problem. Longest frequent fortnightly round trip is 110 miles, not quite so easy in 30 kWh Leaf bearing in mind the above.40 kW Leaf no problem.
 

If you can easily charge at your destination that changes the equation again. 
 

Zap Map is your friend for long distance. It is well worth having a look at what chargers are in the area your travelling to. think most people on here would be surprised at just how much charging infrastructure is around.


In summary buy the smallest battery you can with the fastest charge capability.

Would I go back to ICE, and give up my near silent, super smooth,  instant torque magic carpet? Not even if you paid me.

HTH

idd

Interesting post, particularly ‘buy the smallest battery you can with the fastest charge capability’ the logic of that is a bit lost on me ??

I bought a Leaf a year ago - I will never go back to ICE. But given the choice between the 40kWh and the 62kWh Leaf battery it was a no brainer - I got the bigger battery which can provide a total range of 240miles or, - on a frosty morning with front and back heated windows, heated seats on high, a/c on etc. more like 180 miles. Annual mileage of 7500miles (22miles a day) is the national average so for most people a 180 mile round trip range (worst case) is adequate for the vast majority of journeys. 
ICE drivers are oft heard to say ‘but I can refuel my car at the  garage in five minutes’ while I say, I can refuel my car at home in five seconds ( 5 seconds to plug it in and is ‘refuelled’ whilst I sleep ?) .

People are very conservative and resistant to change. In a couple of decades I think most people will be convinced and think it odd that we actually drove around in ICE vehicles ‘back in the day’ ?

 

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It's not 'resistance to change' for me.... It's just not practical right now. Currently (sic), I have 3 charging points within 12 miles, and I have no off street parking available for charging. Oh, and an EV is flippin' expensive - I'm on a pension. We don't all have a choice....

 

In reality, my 12 year old, low mileage Skoda Octavia will, hopefully, last me until I don't need a replacement.

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