Peter Garsden Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 Thought I would show you the pilots which arrived this morning from Sean at Real Model Pilots. What a deal. I ordered one and he sent 2 - one he made specially for Andy and one of his standard items. Question is, did the Canberra have 2 pilots? There looks to be enough space for 2? Any offers from you geeky types? I also thought i would show you the canopy and bomb aimers canopy or whatever it is called. I don't need the bomb aimer's bit because of the version I am making. above. So it is going spare if anyone wants it. Vortex Vacforms supply both items. If you want me to send it I still have the box which the pilot's came in which will work fine. No cost or P&P, consider it a gift to the needy? PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 Posted by Andy Blackburn on 04/03/2018 12:31:12: OK, so bearing in mind previous discussions about trusting the parts and paper plans expanding and contracting with atmospheric conditions, either the plan or the parts could be at fault (although I suspect the plan, as previously discussed). I know the original parts were OK (see the original build thread) and Sarik have seen these, so they'd have to be going some to get it wrong, although it depends how they've managed the process and I can think of a couple of ways that errors might creep in. Can you please measure the gaps between the ribs on the mainspar for me? The correct distances (i.e. as designed) between ribs on the plan are : R4-R5 : 59.96 mm R5-R6 : 60.79 mm R6-R7 : 60.79 mm R7-R8 : 60.79 mm R8-R9 : 60.00 mm (note that the V-shaped laser burn will make the slots a little bigger. And I'm obviously not expecting you to measure to a hundredth of a mm!) If it turns out that the parts are correct, you can add a bit of wood to the bottom skin (nobody will know). If it turns out that the parts are wrong, I'll talk to Sarik on your behalf... rgds A. Bit difficult to measure the finished wing Andy and the parts are already installed with filler pieces installed, but doing the best I can using my micrometer R4-R5 - 57.65mm R5- R6 62.5mm R6 - R7 65.93 R7 - R8 64.59 R8 - R9 60.32 As I say this is a guesstimate as I have filled in the gaps now and chopped the end off. Looking at the plan the gaps between the main spar ribs are all the same - 59.40 The gaps shown on the outer sub spar as drawn on the plan however are all 61.28mm So the gaps on the plan part main spar R4 to R9 are all 60mm or thereabouts. So I think that the part has not been cut out according to the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 Posted by Andy Blackburn on 04/03/2018 12:31:12: OK, so bearing in mind previous discussions about trusting the parts and paper plans expanding and contracting with atmospheric conditions, either the plan or the parts could be at fault (although I suspect the plan, as previously discussed). I know the original parts were OK (see the original build thread) and Sarik have seen these, so they'd have to be going some to get it wrong, although it depends how they've managed the process and I can think of a couple of ways that errors might creep in. Can you please measure the gaps between the ribs on the mainspar for me? The correct distances (i.e. as designed) between ribs on the plan are : R4-R5 : 59.96 mm R5-R6 : 60.79 mm R6-R7 : 60.79 mm R7-R8 : 60.79 mm R8-R9 : 60.00 mm (note that the V-shaped laser burn will make the slots a little bigger. And I'm obviously not expecting you to measure to a hundredth of a mm!) If it turns out that the parts are correct, you can add a bit of wood to the bottom skin (nobody will know). If it turns out that the parts are wrong, I'll talk to Sarik on your behalf... rgds A. Bit difficult to measure the finished wing Andy and the parts are already installed with filler pieces installed, but doing the best I can using my micrometer R4-R5 - 57.65mm R5- R6 62.5mm R6 - R7 65.93 R7 - R8 64.59 R8 - R9 60.32 As I say this is a guesstimate as I have filled in the gaps now and chopped the end off. Looking at the plan the gaps between the main spar ribs are all the same - 59.40 The gaps shown on the outer sub spar as drawn on the plan however are all 61.28mm So the gaps on the plan part main spar R4 to R9 are all 60mm or thereabouts. So I think that the part has not been cut out according to the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 I am thinking of retaining the wings using a handy wing joiner which I bought from Top Models in Czechoslovakia - problem is that it didn't come with any instructions, but I think I have worked it out. Couldn't find the same product on the site again. Methinks I will have to build up some depth in the built up wing to hold the female screw fitting, and the same in the fuselage. Question is should I use balsa or ply or both - I think both maybe. You don't want it to rip out on a heavy landing, but the plastic screw has to bind on something soft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cooper Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 The Canberra T4 trainer had side by side seats for two pilots. It therefore had two direct vision windows in the canopy. In fact the picture at the start of this Forum shows the second DV window just above the door. Edited By Tony Cooper on 11/03/2018 16:18:19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 The carbon connector rod was loose in the wing tube so Andy suggested I apply to coats of epoxy to create a larger circumference.and make it tighter in the tube. I mixed some microballoons with some epoxy and applied two coats. It is still not very tight but better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 To make the extra parts namely the root rib out of 1/64" ply and the facing rib which attaches to the fuselage, and is made of 1/16" ply I made some cardboard templates.which worked fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 I used some aliphatic resin to glue the inner top sheeting to the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 To make sure the servo plus and socket in the wing do not come apart, I have used a technique shown me by Matt Jones - I melted the plastic off a wire and plastic tie and wrapped it round the plug and socket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAD Dave Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I believe most "bubble canopy" Canberras had two seats at the front. The pilot's Martin Baker armchair plus, to his right, a foldable "Rumbold" (Google it) non-ejection seat for use by brave men. Two occupants would therefore not necessarily be incorrect. Twin MB's on the T4 accepted of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 Thanks for your cockpit advice chaps. The one I was looking in at Woodford had one seat at the front then 2 seats behind where, no doubt the navigator, and engineer sat? It makes no odds as only the Scale Police will berate me for getting it wrong, so 2 pilots it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 Have put the top sheeting on now, and have cut the leading edge strips. I used Aliphatic Resin for both the top sheeting, and the leading edge as well as gluing the wing tips together - 2 pieces of 1/4" tops, a laminate of 1/32" ply then a 1/8" bottom sandwich - all parts supplied in the wood pack Masking tape is so useful. I will used it to line the joint when dry to stop the plane scoring the top sheeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 Just thought I would show you The washout wedges spot and tack cyano glued to the bottom of the wing as otherwise they wander off line when putting the wing down and pinning it to bench in position. The aileron line - one marks this by piercing the bottom skin on the join with pin pricks, then join up the pin holes with a pencil mark, so when cutting it out, I will use a fine toothed saw through both top and bottom skins Also, trimming off the end of the top sheeting and making a clean cut is difficult - I use the adjustable blade knife from my DIY box, which has break off blades and is very handy for heavy duty work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 Having said I couldn't find the plastic wing joiner I got from Top Models, I have found it now in its new upgraded version. I have just realised that the male end is meant to go in the wing and the female in the fuselage rather than the other way round - obviously This is the link - **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete taylor Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Posted by Peter Garsden on 11/03/2018 21:19:11: The carbon connector rod was loose in the wing tube so Andy suggested I apply to coats of epoxy to create a larger circumference.and make it tighter in the tube. I mixed some microballoons with some epoxy and applied two coats. It is still not very tight but better. I've always used a layer of masking tape to solve this one. If a single wrap of tape is too much, then try using it on half of the joiner rod. Works for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 As I said above, I made pin holes in the bottom sheet then joined up the dots with a line. The question is how to cut out the aileron, because one has to go through ribs cross grain. I used this very useful Tamiya balsa saw, which is very handy for all sorts of applications. The link is here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 Last night I stuck on the wing tips (incidentally you need a right and a left wing tip as it is a 1/8 balsa 1/32 ply 1/2 balsa sandwich starting from the bottom, so don't make 2 right had version like what I did and have to almost start again), and the 1/64 ply root facings with epoxy. With hindsight I should have used Aliphatic Resin for the wing root which grabs a lot better. Even using 20 minute epoxy it was starting to go off by the time I glued on the final wing root facing. In the above picture you can see the 1/16 ply insert to hold the bolts for the Aileron horn, which is good and solid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 And so to the nacelles. It took me a while to figure how out how it all went together as there are many parts very cleverly designed with tabs, the CNC cutting very accurate. Andy - note to self - mark the plan with the part numbers shown. I think it would be easy to do. There is, however a sequence of drawings showing which order parts go together with details of the curving of the outer sheeting. There is a keel running top and bottom of the wing with formers at right angles number N1 to N10. I decided to support the wing on blocks of foam as the keel underneath, otherwise applying pressure might crush the delicate structure I decided to try alihphatic glue which is a wicking alternative to cyano. Less fumes but one has to pin it in position as it doesn't grab and set fast like cyano. It does,however, dry in about 15 minutes. Warning, however, it doesn't sand at all. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Slopes Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Please keep posting the detailed pictures, Peter, I know I'm going to need them when I move on from building the fuselage to doing the wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 Well yesterday, I had an inert dispirited day trying to make the 3/32" curved 3D covers for the Nacelles. I made 2 paper patterns for one quadrant, and 2 attempts at a balsa shroud, neither of which worked. Andy I think I need some help here. In the previous thread I said aliphatic glue - don't mean that I meant Super Phatic, sorry. I read the instructions copiously, cut out a large sheet of paper to form my paper pattern, and laid it over the structure. I think the problem is that paper is too flexible. At the front, the sheet has to twist slightly to get over the front curve of the wing and down the side of the nacelle. I marked top and bottom of the pattern on the paper and cut it out. I transferred it to balsa and it wouldn't fit. I tried again, and made another Horlicks of it. I gave up and watched the TV instead, disgruntled, and that was after cleaning the house as the trouble n strife is away, so I must be desperate! My plan going forward is:- Use a cardboard template instead of paper. Use the wing root 1/16 ply rib I have made to mark off the top profile of the wing section and transfer that to cardboard Andy, you talked about cutting "darts" in the template, but I didn't understand what you meant. Can't remember if that is in the article from RCM&E or the building blog. I didn't even get onto the hot water soak, and rounding off with thumb nails at all. This is probably the most difficult piece of building I have done so far - never shy away from a challenge though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Blackburn Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 > Andy I think I need some help here. Sorry to hear that you've been having some issues with the nacelles - it is reasonably straightforward once you know the correct technique, which I've detailed in a separate thread: **LINK** This shows the step-by-step process, and it doesn't take long to get a reasonable pattern. Let me know if it works for you or not and I'll amend the thread as appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 That's excellent Andy, thanks very much indeed, heartily and genuinely appreciated. Will save me from tearing what little hair I have, out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 Just goes to show that a bit of good instruction and tips goes a long way. Last night I followed Andy's guidance, and heh presto it worked. What I wasn't doing is marking the outline several times and sticking the pattern to the wing. Still wasn't easy, but much easier. I found the soaking of the wood with hot water really effective. I used cryano as suggested which didn't mind wet wood. Now I have to steam and bend a piece of 3/16 balsa which will be a challenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Looking good Peter! If the 3/16 fights back, you can always use two laminations of 3/32”. Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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