Depth Perception.

[David Davis]

I found this very informative. **LINK**

[Geoff S]

Yes, that's a really good video. Pity about the so-called 'Pea-nut gallery!'.

I'm OK using my rudder (certainly on the take-off run) but I've never used it to steer on the approach. I had a lot of trouble doing touch and goes with my Riot today because of the strong wind. I do use elevator and throttle as you're supposed to so I'll give rudder steering a try. The only thing that concerns me a little is that spins are rudder initiated.

btw one of the thing that improved my rudder skills was flying my little V911 helicopter indoors ... and I'm not a heli pilot normally.

Geoff

[Dwain Dibley.]

Geoff, its like heli flying if you like, steer with rudder and just keep the aircraft level with opposing aileron. A left rudder input would require a right aileron input, the inputs will be very small at slow speed. Control height with throttle and a set elevator, and a nice flare at the end.

 

D.D.

Edited By Dwain Dibley. on 27/09/2018 20:41:53

[i12fly]

As someone who has excellent vision with both eyes (with glasses), and used to use both eyes together but now can only use one due to a damaged muscle in the other, I can verify that you can forget about binocular vision above about 15ft. Everything above that is by perspective and movement..

We always fly about 3/4 up the field towards the landing threshold but whenever possible I move a bit closer to the boundary for landing which is much easier to judge the boundary wall due to a side component in the movement.

Normal varifocals don't make any difference unless they are 'occupational type', which extend the reading part further up the lens so that using a pc is much easier but you still have good distance vision near the top of the lens. It stops the need to tilt your head back to read the screen with subsequent neck ache. I have a pair of both types which is great providing I take the normal pair to the field, otherwise the sharp distance part of the lens is a smaller area.

Only using one eye doesn't stop me doing much apart from playing catch.... judging movement that is a couple of feet away can be a problem. One advantage is checking alignment -my plane building has never as straight and true.

[J D 8]

In sunny weather' at least in the middle part of the day one can use the position of the models shadow to confirm it's position over the strip as you come in to land. Just another aid that can help at times.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by David Davis on 27/09/2018 19:32:28:

I found this very informative. **LINK**

There's little to argue with in this video and the advice regarding attitude and throttle use was spot on. I particularly enjoyed hearing the demonstrator advising that the final turn needs to be completed past the apparent aligned position in order to be tracking along the extended centre line - something I'm always trying to get over to pupils and often to more experienced flyers. So many approaches end up with multiple corrections due to initial misalignment after an early final turn.

What I think has been misrepresented slightly is the advice not to use ailerons to make turns during the approach. A correct approach should not need any meaningful turns and crosswind drift should be offset as soon as the approach starts with only small adjustments required as the approach progresses - i.e. the wings should remain at a more or less constant angle - flat, or banked if using the wing down method instead of crabbing to offset a crosswind. If your heading needs to be adjusted, I would always advise a properly co-ordinated turn. In my gliding days, we used to demonstrate the incipient spin using an entry technique of initiating a flattish turn with excessive rudder and holding off bank with aileron. Making flat corrections during an approach seems rather too similar...

[Roger Price 1]

I found this on U tube and with common sense precautions viz. not standing TOO close to the runway on approach then it seems a simple solution to the problem. Altogether a good video for general flying also.

**LINK**

Roger Price

[Allan Bennett]

At our club the pilot 'box' is off to one side, and at one end, of the runway. It is customary for our pilots to stand in the runway behind their models when taking off, and to then walk over to the box.

I personally find it helps with approaching the runway for landing if I move away from the box so that I'm almost in line with the model's approach, and aim almost for myself. I find that it's much easier to judge my approach angle, line, and speed that way. If the wind's in the opposite direction, while my model's on the downwind leg I walk a significant distance from the pit, towards the threshold for that wind direction.

Edited By Allan Bennett on 28/09/2018 21:07:04

[J D 8]

I do not think it is good thing to be standing in an active runway while aircraft are flying. Having pilots wandering all over the place not good either.

[Peter Jenkins]

A good landing starts with a good approach which in turn starts with a good circuit. So DD do you fly consistent circuits with turns in pretty much the same place at the same height and with height being reduced from the time you turn cross wind and maintaining that angle of descent with throttle while maintaining the model's attitude or speed with the elevator. I see many pilots who fly radically different circuits and end up either too high or too low and then run into trouble.

So, I would encourage you to get into the habit of flying a set circuit pattern for the prevailing wind. On zero or low wind days you want to extend your downwind leg so that your cross wing leg allows you to use a shallow approach - i.e. the speed is not too high. Remember that if the aircraft has its nose down and you just use the throttle to manage the rate of descent the model cannot stall. On a high wind day you may need to turn off the downwind leg almost at the runway threshold as your into wind speed will be low.

But, as has already been said, practice circuits and landings and you will get better. Flying a whole session with just circuits and bumps is very worthwhile and never boring as it is one of the most difficult things to do correctly all the time.

[Trevor]

Lots of good stuff here! All I would add is that the best way to get better at this is to fly from a smaller field! The one that I did most of my early flat field flying from was surrounded by water on three sides and the pits/car park on the fourth and it's amazing how quickly your landings improve!

More practically, Since you haven't got a river or a barbed wire fence across the threshold to focus the mind, how about painting some broad zebra stripes across the runway 5 or ten metres from the threshold, as per full size practice? This would give your eyes a reference point that you would still be aware of even when the stress-induced tunnel vision takes over at the critical moment.

Trevor

[ken anderson.]

bonjour David, its probably something to do with the French air? non?....my recommendations...… use your favourite model..JNR 60? and do circuits...trim the model for the conditions, not to windy and do circuit after circuit, left and right hand...get used to seeing where it is in relation to the ground and after a while do some landings.dont bother flying around well off the ground..ie...high. Stay low for the entire flight duration....discipline...order of the day.... hope this helps as well as the other info..

 

ken anderson...ne..1....landing dept.

Edited By ken anderson. on 29/09/2018 10:42:24

[fly boy3]

Ken has given great advice, practice low level flying to get the fear of landing out of your system lol. Cheers

[David Davis]

Thank you gentlemen. I'm going flying tomorrow and will try to put your advice into effect.

[Shaun Walsh]

Posted by Trevor on 29/09/2018 08:41:23:

Lots of good stuff here! All I would add is that the best way to get better at this is to fly from a smaller field! The one that I did most of my early flat field flying from was surrounded by water on three sides and the pits/car park on the fourth and it's amazing how quickly your landings improve!

More practically, Since you haven't got a river or a barbed wire fence across the threshold to focus the mind, how about painting some broad zebra stripes across the runway 5 or ten metres from the threshold, as per full size practice? This would give your eyes a reference point that you would still be aware of even when the stress-induced tunnel vision takes over at the critical moment.

Trevor

A lot of truth in the comment about flying from a small field Trevor.

I am currently relearning after a break of 40 years and my instructor sometimes teaches me at a cricket club with a very small pitch, Two sides have trees on the boundary, one side is the clubhouse and the fourth side has a bank with wooden fence on top, add to that the two site screens and the wicket covers. An accurate landing requires a circuit around defined waypoints at the correct height, too low on the final approach and you hit hit a tree/fence, too high and you don't get the wheels down before you run out of space, landing direction is critical to avoid the wicket covers. it's a bit like trying to land on a green aircraft carrier. The instructor said to me, if you can make consistently good landings here, you can land anywhere. I must admit landing approaches at the usual flying field are a lot easier, its like trying to land on an A4 envelope instead of a postage stamp.

[Rich too]

Posted by Romeo Whisky on 27/09/2018 10:24:19:

For reasons I have never heard explained, many clubs seem to place the pilot stance aside the middle of the runway.

It is actually much better to place the pilot stance near the runway threshold, as this means the model has the full runway length to take off without having to pass a central stance (potential danger) and rudder control is most intuitive when the pilot is behind the model. With regard to David's query about landing, it is also much easier to judge the runway threshold on landing when you are near to it, and spatial awareness issues are much less of a factor. Another benefit of this on landing, (as when taking off) is that as soon as the model has passed the threshold pilot stance it is flying away from you which means that the rudder direction is intuitive and flare-out is easier to judge too.

Of course this necessitates the pilot stance may need to be varied from day to day (indeed sometimes even during the day) in relation to wind direction, and there needs to be agreement between pilots as to where the stance should be, but this can easily be accommodated in Club Rules and basic field ettiquette.

I tried this today, and changed my standing position. it is a lot easier landing that way, rather than having most of the approach and landing being flying towards  yourself... I have a hedge to fly over and it’s is much easier to judge.👍

Edited By Rich too on 29/09/2018 17:46:57

Edited By Rich too on 29/09/2018 17:47:35

[eflightray]

My 'pilot stance' is anywhere I like, I fly on my own. My landing criterion is to not have to walk far to pick the model up, (ok lazy, but then that's why I do RC and not free flight).

As for depth perception, this year I have clipped two trees and a hedge, previous was a long time ago. I had been putting it down to the usual excuse, "did you see the tree jump into its path ?". And yes, I have had my eyes tested earlier this year and I wear my glasses.

But I still think trees and hedges can move.

Ray.

[Braddock, VC]

I only have good vision in one eye, so just my 2p how I used to judge model's position whilst flying, pop the model down on the end of the runway, return to your pilot's box and then look at the model over your tranny, mark the position of the wingtips on the tranny with snopake or any other bright paint that is easily visible - just a couple of dots is all then as the model approaches if the wing tips are smaller than your wing gauge your too far out if they're the same size or bigger you're on the money.

You'll only need to do it a few times when your brain will take over and do the estimating for you in place of the gauge.

Try it before you knock it as it's what the dambusters did to time their bomb drop exactly. It harks back to the day of side by side shotguns, if your target bird wingspan was greater than the width of your barrels it was in range if smaller it wasn't. It worked there as the pattern density of the shot meant a large bird would naturally be further away but should take a similar number of hits as a small bird closer in.

[John Duncker]

I used to teach people to fly from a short strip with a 5 foot hedge on the approach. One novice had depth perception problems and would either hit he hedge or arrive to high.

I cut out a full size plywood side view of a trainer painted it white and placed it just to the pilot side of the approach on the hedge. This helped a lot.