2.4 GHz tranny black ribbon

[Terry Whiting]

Can someone clarify please.

Is it a BMFA ruling that a 2.4 GHz transmitter should have a Black Ribbon afixed to the aerial, if so why?

[260 Flyer]

Terry

You have to have a Black Ribbon for the same reason you need a 2.4GHz peg - CONTROL - which the BMFA are reluctant to relinquish.

I recently visited a club where strict adherence to BMFA rules was mandatory, including the Black Ribbon. As I was not equipped with the said item I had to borrow one. On my first flight, a hand launch was called for due to the length of the grass strip. After launching I smartly moved my hand back to the Tx and needed to apply some back stick pronto but something was wrong! The B***** ribbon had blown across the face of the Tx and was trapped between the top of the stick and my thumb. Heaving back on the stick saved the model and pulled the ribbon from the antenna. Had been flying something a bit faster I might not have been so lucky.

[Terry Whiting]

The Club I belong run a peg on system, and a transmitter pound. All the pegs have the members name and frequency No....For 2.4GHz  we use named 'Black' pegs The only reason we use pegs for 2.4 GHz is because we have a limited number of powerd models airborne at any one time.  Aerial pennants are not required.

As youself I visited a club, this one was holding an electric flight open day. On arrival I was asked if I was participating in the flying, if so please hand my transmitter in at the transmitter pound tent. At the tent I handed my transmitter to the pound official, "What's this" he snapped, "my transmitter" says I, " I know it's a transmitter, wheres your b****** black ribbon"                                                                                  I Another flyer offered a ribbon but I declined his kind offer, as I was going to give that pedantic pillock the benefit.

Why do we need pennants if we operate a peg system. The peg boards are of today, pennants are a left over relic of past years.  

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Keiran Arnold]

Isn't it all about frequency control as potentially you can have flying on 27Mhz, 35 Mhz and 2.4 Ghz. I manufactured a pennant using some black ribbon and a clip. it fits nicely on the handle of my Futaba TX.

[Brian Lambert]

Stolen from the BMFA handbook

All transmitters should carry an easily visible
channel identification pennant;
For 27 MHz, a correctly coloured ribbon and/or a
white flag, approximately three inches by two inches
with one inch minimum height black numerals.
For 35 MHz, an orange flag, approximately three
inches by two inches with one inch minimum height
black or white numerals.
For 2.4 GHz, a black ribbon.

Does that answer the question?

Brian

[260 Flyer]

Keiran

By clipping the ribbon to the handle of your Tx you are not complying with the BMFA rule!

I quote from the BMFA SAFETY BULLETIN.

"2.4 GHz transmitter aerials should display a black ribbon."

"The requirement for transmitter frequency pennants identifying the channel in use remains no matter what frequency control system is in use."

I tried putting it on the handle but I was ordered to put it on the antenna!

[Erfolg]

And the British accuse the Italians of bureaucracy!

We need a change of Government to get a national change of attitude.

It is as ovious to look at the aerial as it is to look for a black ribbon to see what frequency band is being used. It might be argued that a black ribbon could be masked by a black transmitter case. Bright pink may be easier to see.

It appears that organisations such as the BFMA, need to introduce rules to reassure themselves of there place in the world. In my opinion all rules and regulations should be challenged by the originators to evaluate if any real benefit or need is gained. Unfortunately those who are attracted to these roles have a need to control, to ensure that all is in order. Yet without the self same people there would be no infrastructure to represent us ordinary flyer's.

We ordinary flyer's could do a lot to reduce the number of rules, by challenging the rule makers to justify silly rules vis furums such as this.

I once had to re- write the "office procedures" as the annual audit kept finding that the department was in breach, year after year. The document was reduced by 80%, simply by asking,

• why do we need to all do the same?
• why do we want to record actions?
• what should be controlled as a minimum?

Tackled sensibly your rule book reduces and necessary objectives are easier to monitor.

Erfolg

[Keiran Arnold]

Rob,

Whilst not to the "letter of the law "putting the pennant on the handle is "within the spirit of the law" and it is satisfactory where I fly. Alas we are always going to encounter petty bureaucrats who  take pleasure in ordering people about. A little common sense goes a long way.

[Tim Mackey]

I see no real benefit or need to have a pennant at all  other than wind direction perhaps? The BMFA driven NATS this year had several show pilots operating 2.4Ghz with no such silly tassles, and the evening flight line even dispensed witht the peg idea after a while...common sense luckily prevailed, as it was realised that exclusively 2.4Ghz lines need no control as such other than manual control of numbers of models airborne at any one time.

Having been exclusively 2.4G for almost 2 years, even the need to maintain habits of pegboard discipline is redundant for myself. 

[Erfolg]

Kieran

Why do we need a pendant, does the aerial not serve as a flag, that this tranny is a 2.4?

Rules and laws should have a useful purpose,other than to en-power the authorities. We as a country have allowed by silence, and the view if you have done nothing etc, is to fall into an authoritarian mind set, reminiscent of earlier eras.

We should challenge unessary rules and burocracy. It is often the "Dead Hand of the Rule Makers", that discourage people joining clubs and organisations. I am an adult, I do not need or want some one else to tell what to do or when and where I can do something, as a principal.

Some of the questions asked about transmitters for the BMFA test are questionable. Do I need to know the frequency range of UHF transmitters? In my opinion what i need to know, is my transmitter legal and under what limitations. If I want to buy a new one, where do I find the information on permitted frequecies.

I am a BMFA, primarily for the insurance cover, which is obtained via the club. 

Erfolg 

[Ultymate]

It's alright if you're flying "exclusively" yourself with your own exclusively 2.4Ghz models but if your involved as I've been this season in changing over to 2.4 (almost exclusive but not quite) and also instructing new pilots on a mixed bag of gear and modes you most deffinately need to keep your wits about you in terms of pegs, aerial extension and keeping an eye on what said student pilots are doing ie setting them off in a safe and considerate use of the frequencies.

P.S. Not overly bothered about pendants 

[Tim Mackey]

Hi Brian - yep quite right, indeed I myself endorsed the committees decision to retain the peg system for that very reason..... was merely speaking from a purely personal POV especially as Rahme is now spekkified too!!

Of course the sooner we all go 2.4ghz the sooner we can dispense with all the peg and flag nonsense - TAXI !! LOL

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[260 Flyer]

Wonder what that did for your SWR?

[Terry Whiting]

I should think most  "well run" Clubs today operate a peg  board system, either PEG ON or PEG OFF,          

As Timbo stated at the BMFA Nats,  and  I witnessed at Wings & Wheels , pilots were flying without pennants. These are  "B" cert display  flyers, now these guys are safety conscious, if they can see there is no benefit in aerial appendages, so should the BMFA.      When flying a turbine model, the last  thing you want is to be  momentary distracted by a windmilling pennant.  

[Ultymate]

You can always tell whose on what by the size of their ****** (aerial)

[Erfolg]

I am now perplexed why any one should try and justify a peg system for 2.4.

In most clubs I cannot see a reasonable need to control the number of sets in operation, or possibly more sensibly the number of model aircraft flying, there are just not enough people flying.

I seem to rememeber as our clubs competition manager, that I had slots with up to 10 people flying. I would have had more if a viable matrix could have been arranged (crystals permitting).

There may be a need to regulate the flying, but this should be the exception not the norm, in my opinion.

I am one of those freedom loving people, I believe many are put of over management, many modellers want fun and to be with their pals.

SMAE was seen by many as irrelevant to them, I suspect the BFMA may be similar.

Erfolg

Erfolg

[Keiran Arnold]

Simple question for all how do we apply to the BMFA to change the rules regarding the need for a pennant  after all it is "our" BMFA

[Myron Beaumont]

Could someone with the proverbially " suited "attire from H&S please specify what shade of black the necessary pendant/flag /wind direction indicator/stick raveller upper should be  ?  Can they not tell the difference in aerial length ( in metric of course ) between one & the other - I know the length of a white stick  Have they ever seen one in use ?--By the way who are these " THEY " folks who get every thing wrong now in this great britain (with no capitals  ) Sorry if "they " can't read this. If so they certainly shouldn't be flying  BUT yes  THEY make the rules !! 

What happened to the "common sense self preservation society "  Dont bother --Just join a club & get told what you can do & where & when & how & for how long & in which direction & where to stand & for how long til they tell you the sun has moved & &  etc  etc 

  Sad isnt it

[Tim Mackey]

I would guess the first step may be to approcah someone like Manny Williamson and gauge the response

[Myron Beaumont]

PS 

Can "they " please tell the rain to stop The visibility is not too good .Either that or make up another rule prohibiting flying in the rain _ we need to be told  -Don't we !

[Myron Beaumont]

Timbo

Excuse my ignorance but who is Manny  Williamson  ?

[Bravedan]

While we are all getting het up over this, and probably I'm about to wind up the "isn't it obvious" brigade, what about dual frequency Tx's with 2.4 modules buried under the normal 35MHz appearing Tx?

OK so they have the 35MHz aerial retracted (usually!) but I have seen people flying 2.4 with a 35MHz aerial erected so the pennant can do a useful job, as a check of wind direction!!!

I refuse to put anything directly on a FASST 2.4GHz aerial, it really is a recipe for a disaster!!!

What I do is have a black pennant of stiffish double layer Vinyl attached to a peg.  The peg goes on the handle and the "pennant" sticks up close to the aerial away from the Tx body, where it is far more visible than a ribbon, and cannot catch in anything.

Not the letter of the law, but I never apologise for common sense. 

Runs for cover........................................ 

[Erfolg]

This discussion on 2.4 transmitters has rather saddened me.

The BMFA rather than being a bottom up organisation, responding to members, appears to be a top down structure. With its representatives from clubs and regions etc. Were the members directly consulted on the rules regarding  the operation of 2,4 transmitters, or any other issue. I would guess not, your local delegate probably spoke on your behalf. Do you know this delegate? Does he ask yor views?

If Switzerland can go directly to the people of a Canton with regards legislation. Why cannot a paltry 100,000 people be asked about there views.

The BFMA should represent its members, not itself.

It may surprise some, if you take the views oif a large group, there accuracy of prediction is far better than that of experts. Typically being correct 90% of the time, experts less than 50%. Trust the menbers.

The BFMA would  possibly be loved by its members, rather than be coeorcedby insurance or a qualifying requirement for some competions.

Get real on the rules for 2.4.

Erfolg