Interesting reply from email to Richard Moriarty, CAA

[MattyB]

Posted by Steve J on 29/05/2019 17:35:27:

That is the standard answer from the CAA. Martin started this topic with an extract from it.

Has anybody had anything that isn't basically the standard DfT or CAA response?

Steve

Nope, all I've had are stock responses, other than my MP who has not yet responded (wll no beyond his "I've got it" auto reply message).

Edited By MattyB on 29/05/2019 17:39:58

[Jason-I]

So it seems a few of us have had the standard hymn sheet response from the CAA, a few have had some limited responses from their MP, but not one single person has had a response from Baroness Vere? Is she too important to respond to us, the people who pay her wages? Or is she not a civil servant who answers to the people?

Perhaps we should invite her to look at out gender diversity - that might encourage her to respond:

**LINK**

[Former Member]

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[Jason-I]

Posted by Percy Verance on 29/05/2019 19:33:25:

Still, it may not be too long before it's Vere today, gone tomorrow........

Ha, Ha....

[GONZO]

I imagine you wont be the only one!

[Andy Symons - BMFA]

**post removed - forum language infringement**

Could I suggest not making any hasty decisions just yet, there is a long way to go and a lot of effort is going into the fight, it may will be that the final position means hardly any hassle at all. It is far too soon to be predicting doom!

Edited By David Ashby - Moderator on 30/05/2019 05:57:12

[Gordon Whitehead 1]

Well I have more than 62 years of my life invested in this hobby, and it'll take far more than a £16.50 (and more if it inflates) charge to stop me designing, building and flying sport-scale models of my favourite planes at whatever size I want to fly. The biggest restriction I face is that of noise, recently sorted by selling my jets, glows and petrols and returning to all-electric power.

As long as raw materials are available and my health continues favourably, I'll continue to spend my leisure hours as before. Ron Moulton is the guy to blame for my incurable obsession with his "Flying Scale Models" book which I had the good fortune to be given at age 12, and the govt ain't gonna undo all that Ron enthused me with.

Gordon

[Former Member]

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[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Posted by Gordon Whitehead 1 on 29/05/2019 21:05:59:

Well I have more than 62 years of my life invested in this hobby, and it'll take far more than a £16.50 (and more if it inflates) charge to stop me designing, building and flying sport-scale models of my favourite planes at whatever size I want to fly. The biggest restriction I face is that of noise, recently sorted by selling my jets, glows and petrols and returning to all-electric power.

As long as raw materials are available and my health continues favourably, I'll continue to spend my leisure hours as before. Ron Moulton is the guy to blame for my incurable obsession with his "Flying Scale Models" book which I had the good fortune to be given at age 12, and the govt ain't gonna undo all that Ron enthused me with.

Gordon

My kind of fella.

[Peter Jenkins]

Posted by Percy Verance on 29/05/2019 21:31:27:

A chap I often fly with ( he's a BMFA member) tells me that it's reported that although the French scheme is free, there is seemingly already a 10% reduction in participation, presumably because of the red tape?

Chinese whispers again Percy?

[i12fly]

Today received the same email from 'drone consult at CAA' as Jason Inskip, so have politely replied that I disagree, based on:

-Rogue drone flyers will not bother to register

-Control of U space can only benefit commercial operators, not me, so any costs should be borne by them

As usual with hastily drawn up legislation it is persecution of the innocent.

I'll carry on flying within the law, but I think our club membership will drop by about 20%, maybe more, some are not computer literate, some are now non-flyers but join (along with BMFA) just to keep supporting the club, where will they stand if the club has to declare that all members have passed the on-line test?

[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[Former Member]

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[Paul Marsh]

Posted by Peter Jenkins on 29/05/2019 23:32:56:

Posted by Percy Verance on 29/05/2019 21:31:27:

A chap I often fly with ( he's a BMFA member) tells me that it's reported that although the French scheme is free, there is seemingly already a 10% reduction in participation, presumably because of the red tape?

Chinese whispers again Percy?

I do believe that, some members in our club are determined not to get in any BMFA A or B cert . We have a BMFA examiner in our club and asked if anyone was interested in doing their 'A'. no interest. When he pitched a few Q's at a meeting, regarding the A cert test, people started to get bored - no intention to do it.

He gave up trying to coax them to do the 'A', and its I know that "i'm been flying for years and don't need an A or any test".

Some people will give up, i've heard it at events so far this year.

[ken anderson.]

i reckon when all the dust has settled we will lose a lot of fellow flyers for sure.i think that the older lads will just say what's the point of all the hassle to fly a toy/model aircraft.in our club I bet you could count on one hand the number of members who take any notice/interest in the BMFA,they are only bothered about the insurance and depend on the willing band of chairman,secretary and treasurer to fight their battles and look after their interests.

so at the end of the day I foresee enforced retirements in the offing for a lot of the older members,good or bad I don't know. Most club members have no inclination to do any tests at all and don't see any reason why they should,me I don't think that a test will make any difference in the big picture to stop the Drone lads who are breaking laws as we speak.

 

ken anderson...ne...1....thoughts dept.

 

PS...…………….. Andy Symons statement above is a bit vague...could he elaborate on it please, as he probably has some facts on the matter?

 

Edited By ken anderson. on 30/05/2019 09:49:04

[Dwain Dibley.]

I see the "Achievement Scheme" to give it it's proper title as a way of getting better at what we do.

A lot of the guys who say I don't need an "A" probably wouldn't get through it. (Ducks Quickly)

I did my "A" in both FW and Helicopter, as I consider it to be helping me, and it felt good when I got them.

I see a lot of things at my club that are dangerous, like guys who don't do pre flight checks etc, and wonder why they go in, flying over the pits, removing glow sticks from in front of the model (through the prop arc) but that's a whole new thread. just saying................ the Achievement scheme gets all this info into peoples heads.

Kens first paragraph sums up the attitude in most clubs, people are in the BMFA because they need insurance, that's it. 90 % don't even read the mag.

BMFA do a great job of looking after us and we need to support them.

Contraversial, but voluntary retirement may help a lot of clubs........Tin hat on.....................

D.D.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by i12fly on 30/05/2019 00:14:43:

I'll carry on flying within the law, but I think our club membership will drop by about 20%, maybe more, some are not computer literate, some are now non-flyers but join (along with BMFA) just to keep supporting the club, where will they stand if the club has to declare that all members have passed the on-line test?

While I do believe that there is likely to be some reduction in flying members from the peripheral element being tipped over the edge, I would hope that any club worth the name would assist any members having difficulties with the on-line test. I will certainly be volunteering my services.

I doubt that it would be difficult to draft a rule requiring club members to have passed the test before flying should any decision be made along those lines.

[ken anderson.]

bit harsh there Dwain..... I would say that most who can fly solo would be capable of passing the A test, and we'll all be members of the old boys club one day, some of best flying friends who helped me learn were the old lads who had the time and patience..

I've seen some bad practice's going on at our site - which having a achievement certificate wouldn't stop etc....

ken anderson...ne....1 best practice dept.

[Bob Cotsford]

I don't see how voluntary retirement can possibly help any club. Already we have at least three four clubs in my area that are short of members, and that means short of funds to pay rents etc., which means higher subs which means more retirees - only oneway that spiral is going!

We need to know what this compulsory test will consist of - is it simple pick 5 of 10 multiple choice questions with options for different model disciplines or will it delve deeply into our knowledge of the law and operation of all types of UAV? If it's about paving the way for commercial operations then we also need the fee structure to be loaded towards the professional and independant flyer with a smaller fee for the recreational club flyer flying from a fixed site.

As Andy says we need to see what the final solution () turns out to be.

[Gordon Whitehead 1]

What makes up "all the hassle" that's about to be thrust upon us that will make it so unpalatable to fly a model plane?

I'm probably missing something here, so please set me right.

All I see is a fee of less than 20 quid, some form of simple test on the regulations that can be answered via a club crib-sheet, a flying test equating to the "A" test which I could probably have passed back in the late 1960's when I was enthusiastically flying a single-channel rudder-only Veron Mini Robot following the aerobatic advice for such machinery that had been available in model magazines years earlier.

I haven't forgotten the age limitation of 18 years either, as that can be sorted by cooperation with fellow club members. The child protection regulations require such cooperation even now.

Just to prove that I can, when pushed ,doom-say with the best of them, I can see that if the new law does turn model flying into an unacceptable leisure option for many existing flyers, costs of everything associated with it will rise for the remaining individuals. Reduced BMFA membership will require a rise in fees to cover costs; reduced club numbers will require members to fork out a bigger membership fee to cover the fixed, and probably rising charge for the field they fly on; the govt licence fee will inexorably rise due to falling numbers; more model shops will die and raw materials become harder to get.

However, on a brighter note I'm sure that plenty of hardy souls will persist with the hobby, and up to now I intend to be one of them. Looking back at when I started to become aware of model planes, there were only two kids in my town that took part, one of which was me, and through the participation of genuine enthusiasts nationwide the hobby was then recovering from what WW2 restrictions and austerity had done to it. We've had lots of good years and there'll be more to come, I'm sure.

Edited By Gordon Whitehead 1 on 30/05/2019 10:25:13

[Cuban8]

Here we go again................

Had a lengthy reply from Louis Jacombs, Correspondence Case Officer at CAA.

For me the points that jump out are ...

'Model aircraft associations or clubs as operators: model aircraft associations or clubs would have the option of registering as the operator with their members acting as remote pilots. In this scenario, the association or club would need to meet any legal requirements and take accountability and responsibility for the actions of their members, and members would need to abide by the remote pilot requirements'.

If it comes to it, I'd be happy to be involved with administering the registration process as an additional task to my duties as club memb sec, but along with other affected club officers, unless there was something put in place to legally protect us, then it'll be a non-starter.

'model aircraft would fall within the scope of DRES and that there would be no blanket exemptions, adding that any specific requirements for model aircraft could not be funded by taxpayers or other drone operators.'

This is the killer, and quite frankly, I'd have thought a legal challenge against it (we've seen a few of those recently) should be considered. Although, and despite many of us having reservations over including drones as aeromodelling, it'll be difficult to back-pedal on the official position now and get sympathy for our concerns.

Edited By Cuban8 on 30/05/2019 10:45:26

[GONZO]

Why must clubs insist on members passing the CAA test to join??? In my club we have those who only fly FF rubber power that are under 250g. They don't need to pass any test or even register.

Those that are prepared to pay this unprincipled tax no matter what level it may reach should consider that below a certain critical mass clubs become economically unviable. Thus, they will end up with no flying site regardless of their willingness/ability to pay.

[Don Fry]

I think you over complicate. The test will be as in France, basic. Nowhere even in the same league as an A or B schemes. It has things like, are you allowed to overfly a nuclear power station?, errrrrr now that's hard. Do you get out of the way of a manned aircraft,? come on boss, beyond me, do me an easy one.

Should you check if you are in the no fly zone of an airfield before take off. How high can you fly. That's it.

[Kim Taylor]

Posted by Gordon Whitehead 1 on 30/05/2019 10:24:01:

What makes up "all the hassle" that's about to be thrust upon us that will make it so unpalatable to fly a model plane?

Speaking for myself, it's not the 'hassle' of paying a fee (tax) and passing some tick box test or other.

But it is the principle of being held to ransom by the hang 'em high brigade within government, fuelled by the press and organisations such as BALPA who see drones blackening the skies.

Do we need to stop the rogue element who operate irresponsibly, dangerously or with malicious intent?

Yes, absolutely.

Will the proposed register / fee / test do ANYTHING to address the above?

Absolutely not!!

It is simply the common injustice of it that I object to, and I suspect that is the position of many of us.

Kim