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The Gov't, CAA, BMFA & UAV legislation thread


Nigel R
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Posted by SR 71 on 20/11/2019 19:34:21:

Well said Gonzo

But what point is he making exactly? That your hobby means so little that you'll give it away rather than spend 5 minutes complying with a simple law?

I call that ridiculous, not principled.

"The government tried to make me register so I could fly my models. I gave in instead. THAT showed 'em"....

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Exactly Alan. Giving up wont make anyone in government think twice. I assume these people who are giving up because of the principle also give up owning a car because road tax goes up by £5 a year.

nyone who gives up for the sake of 9quid and a quiz or the principle, clearly doesn't think much of their hobby and it doesn't mean much to them such that they can take it or leave it.

Ah well

Edited By Chris Berry on 20/11/2019 19:46:56

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Posted by GONZO on 20/11/2019 19:12:17:

Well, I had a long chat with my friend this afternoon. Amongst many topics the nonsense that is DRES and the 'criminalisation' of flying toy planes when not compliant with the registration etc. He said it was the final straw and was giving up entirely, that's everything including mag subs etc. So that those who barrack those giving up please understand it's not the £9, it's not the stupid test, it's the principle. He's the chap who lives at the end of a single track lane up in the hills of North Wales with his own 1,000ft field at the bottom of his bungalows garden.

So, to all those 'sheeple' who are falling over themselves to join this pathetic charade, ITS THE PRINCIPLE that's the crux of the matter.

Pathetic, this malarkey may be the straw that broke your back and the fellas down the single track lane with his own 1,000 ft field.

Take a look around you sometime, have a butchers at folk who're ill, being harassed and denied their money, pensioners wrapping up coz they can't afford to run the heating, people struggling with real problems, whilst on here you's are bleating about £9 and some mickey mouse test you'll need whilst flying your toy aerowatsits costing who knows what. Sheeple ? grow up.

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Many people in the past have given up much more than a hobby because laws cause a conflict of principle, imprisonment, hard labour camps and even their lives. All given up because of a conflict of principle. That's what this is, feeling that strong that the whole DRES nonsense is so wrong that you will not condone it by participating in it. If that means no more aeromodelling the so be it. The phycological distress suffered if one does not act on ones principle can be severe and is called 'cognitive dissonance', first documented in the 50's. I would respectfully suggest that their desire not to go to jail over say 'freedom of speech' or to continue to live over more serious principles far exceeded your personal desire to continue a hobby. Also, if people of principle had not been prepared to give up much more than the personal gratification of continuing with a hobby this society and your life would undoubtedly be very different.

You can take from my post what you like as to whether I was making a point or just commenting on a conversation.

If you don't like the colloquial term 'sheeple' substitute 'order followers'.

Edited By GONZO on 20/11/2019 20:06:48

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Posted by GONZO on 20/11/2019 20:03:46:

Many people in the past have given up much more than a hobby because laws cause a conflict of principle, imprisonment, hard labour camps and even their lives. All given up because of a conflict of principle. That's what this is, feeling that strong that the whole DRES nonsense is so wrong that you will not condone it by participating in it. If that means no more aeromodelling the so be it. The phycological distress suffered if one does not act on ones principle can be severe and is called 'cognitive dissonance', first documented in the 50's. I would respectfully suggest that their desire not to go to jail over say 'freedom of speech' or to continue to live over more serious principles far exceeded your personal desire to continue a hobby. Also, if people of principle had not been prepared to give up much more than the personal gratification of continuing with a hobby this society and your life would undoubtedly be very different.

You can take from my post what you like as to whether I was making a point or just commenting on a conversation.

If you don't like the colloquial term 'sheeple' substitute 'order followers'.

Edited By GONZO on 20/11/2019 20:06:48

I prefer "law abiding" thanks very much.

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My, the forum is populated with 'saints' who've never ever broken any laws! Who'd of thought.

I never mentioned anyone by name, but if the cap fits. I also was at pains to point out its not the money or test. We both could, if we so desired, easily pay £100/y or more if we felt it justified. So, I'll say it again, it's the principle. A concept that some seem to have difficulty grasping.

It was an unprompted disclosure from my friend that came out of the blue. As I've previously posted I am going to try CL for the first time and keep my powder dry until I see what 1st July brings.

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If people set out to live their lives abiding by the laws of the land they live in, is that such a bad thing? Surely not...

Especially if compliance with the law in question here is trivial. For principled I could say pointless martyrdom. Assuming that cap fitted of course.

It does stick in my throat that you did call those of us who comply "sheeple". When all we are doing is enjoying our hobby legally.

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So am I a sheeple for driving at 30mph in a built-up area then? Or a sheeple for paying income tax?

Or should I be principled and drive at 40mph because I'm a great driver with 25 years experience? And pay no income tax because I'm just an all-round great guy?

What's wrong with that...you tell me. I have not mentioned freedom of speech.

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Alan, I'm not saying you should not comply with DRES if your personal balance of desire against principle so decrees. It's just the eagerness that has been displayed, contrary to the BMFA advice. Its the, and this will upset some but it gets the point over, attitude of when officialdom say 'jump' some shout "me first sir, me first sir, how high how high" when there is no legal reason to do anything until January as advised by our national body the BMFA. I have the attitude of when officialdom says 'jump' I question why, when and what purpose does my jumping serve. Then I consider whether I will or I will not jump. I've known from an early age that my personality is problematic in certain situations that require one to just 'do', like the armed forces or the police etc.

John, thanks for your concern.

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I find it grating how many people have joined this forum to tell the world that they will be giving up their hobby over this "principled" issue and how many people have a "friend" who anecdotally finds it all an affront to their civil liberties and no way will they register. Honestly who cares if your giving up model flying then? Why post it on a model flying forum? What reaction do people expect to get?

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Gonzo, was your friend a member of the BMFA before all this DRES issue blew up?

If he was then, well, perhaps his reason for giving up goes deeper. As a member you have to follow ANO regs and CAA best practices. All of which still need to be done and for now the Princely sum of an extra £9.

,

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we really need a 'like' button on here. Some excellent responses to being called sheeple, 'order followers' - sounds a bit 1945 trials to me but I'm not a moderator - for accepting that our objections were not sufficient to stop legislation but were enough to moderate (that word again!) it's application.

In the '70s I objected to being forced to wear a crash helmet. I was happy to wear one on my own initiative but being a rebellious teenager I wasn't happy accepting orders. It was the principle of the thing! Luckily I believe that I have now matured and accept that mine isn't always the only valid opinion, now I abide by the laws of the land in the hope that it will allow me to quietly carry on without uncalled for legal issues. If the law calls for me to kill or torture my Asian neighbours I may reconsider, but we haven't exactly reached that point yet.

If that makes me a sheeple, if it means I say 'I'm only following orders', if it means I'm surrendering (God alone knows exactly what I'm supposed to be surrendering, whatever) then I could care less because I can go and fly my planes just as I always have.

With the rise of the insults I think I really am out of here this time. It just isn't needed.

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Posted by Chris Berry on 20/11/2019 22:17:47:

I don't care what people call me, I've got a thick skin and I'm.not easily offended. I just find it amazing that someone would give up their hobby over a principle or £9 or a quiz. It's not something I can even comprehend doing in any way shape or form.

I'm with you Chris 👍 on my hols at the moment but when we get back will sort the bmfa membership and the £9 extra, as a pensioner I am not giving up my hobby for this in my view minor inconvenience. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that but I will continue with the hobby I have loved for many years now.

Paul.

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Posted by Bob Cotsford on 20/11/2019 22:40:02:

we really need a 'like' button on here. Some excellent responses to being called sheeple, 'order followers' - sounds a bit 1945 trials to me but I'm not a moderator - for accepting that our objections were not sufficient to stop legislation but were enough to moderate (that word again!) it's application.

In the '70s I objected to being forced to wear a crash helmet. I was happy to wear one on my own initiative but being a rebellious teenager I wasn't happy accepting orders. It was the principle of the thing! Luckily I believe that I have now matured and accept that mine isn't always the only valid opinion, now I abide by the laws of the land in the hope that it will allow me to quietly carry on without uncalled for legal issues. If the law calls for me to kill or torture my Asian neighbours I may reconsider, but we haven't exactly reached that point yet.

If that makes me a sheeple, if it means I say 'I'm only following orders', if it means I'm surrendering (God alone knows exactly what I'm supposed to be surrendering, whatever) then I could care less because I can go and fly my planes just as I always have.

With the rise of the insults I think I really am out of here this time. It just isn't needed.

Well said bob 👍

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With all the enjoyment and friends I have acquired over the years embroiled in this hobby I cannot for the life of me imagine giving this all up for the sake of a simple 10 minutes test and a paltry £9 fee. Life is too short to for cutting your nose off to spite your face! If it wasn't for the BMFA you would have far more strictures to moan about. I also cannot understand why you take the time to contribute to the best forum the committed modeller has when you have declared your intention to divorce yourself from the hobby.

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Everyone are entitled to their own opinion and choices, be that abiding by the law, or breaking it. We may not agree, we may not like it but it is their choice. They are free to make their own decisions, we may not understand them, we may be bemused by them but that is their right. It is not for us to judge, we may comment but let’s keep it non personal.

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