Flair ATS Kite MK4

[Paul Mills 1]

Can anyone please help.

I have just acquired a secondhand Flair Kite which I'm hoping to get airwothy again.

It would be very useful to have a copy of the build instructions and/or plans.

Hopefully someone will have an old copy tucked away that they would copy / loan or sell.

Thanks in advance.

Paul

[Jon Laughton]

Paul I bought one second hand as a trainer for helping friends of mine - I still use it.
I converted it from a tail dragger to a tricycle configuration as both are catered for in the original design.

I learned to fly on a Kite at the now defunct ATS school in Wiltshire 26years ago - it is a great model that is both benign and aerobatic.

happy to answer questions re the finished model and share pics -just PM me.

Jon

[Keith Evans 3]

Hi Paul

I've just noticed this ,been on hols . Am I correct that the Kite was featured in another mag possibly R.C.Model World a few years ago .i.e. the plan and build instructions , and was used as the basis for the A.T.S. Training organisation that was then being set up .

I was not aware that Flair kitted this .

If it is the same model and you are still interested I'm happy to dig around in my attic .

Let me know .

[Old Geezer]

Years ago - after several years away from flying I had a refresher session with ATS at their field flying one of their own ATS Kite trainers. My first impression of the Kite was how heavy it was, and it certainly takes longer to get off the ground on a cooking 40 than a similarly equipped WOT4, but once in the air it's an ideal trainer - just the right combination of stability and responsiveness. However all that wing area and the weight means that you need a lot of room to get it back on the ground - it just lfloats on and on. But keep the weight down and put a modern 46 on the front and you'd have a very useful everyday club sport flier.

Edited By Old Geezer on 07/03/2020 00:47:39

[Peter Roberts]

I still have the plans to support building instructions for the Kite if you still need them. I learnt with ATS on a Kite (using glo fuel), still keep it as my go to plane when I've not flown for a while and developed an electric version based on a MK3 kit.

[Basil]

Peter, have I read your post correctly, in that you have a set of plans for the ATS Kite!!!!

If so , could we arrange so that I could have a copy. I will obviously cover what it costs to aceive that end.

Barry

[Peter Roberts]

Hi Basil and Paul,

I have built Mk3 and Mk4 versions of the kite from the ATS and Flair kits. They are great models although I fly Mk4 on an OS 56 (started with an OS 46) and the Mk3 I electrified. I have posted some photos of the conversion in the gallery.

The plans I have were provided in the original kit but are not scale plans merely to support build instructions. I do have a copy of the build instructions. If of any interest and you would like to message me I'll photo both and put into pdf's for you - no charge. I would love to get hold of the scale building plans but have never seen any. I don't know what Flair's position would be on supplying a copy but suspect that the detail is somewhere in China!!

I hope this helps

Peter

[Peter Roberts]

PS I altered the build to allow for a collapsible undercarriage - supported by rubber bands on posts just like the wings. They have saved my models a number of times in long grass and I heartily recommend the mod.

[Basil]

Peter, sorry I misunderstood you. It was only available as a kit if I now understand, I did not know this. These days it seems unavailable . Thanks for your time.

Barry

[Peter Roberts]

There still maybe a kit available somewhere online - it isn't an ARTF only as a kit which takes about 40hrs to build (the way I do it). I found the kit to convert to electric this way. If you get chance to get one - do you wont regret it.

[Basil]

Peter, I have just aquired one that has been handed down. I am just learning to fly , and it seems to lend itself to that use.It flies really well, it has been the most successful sessions I've had. Its had a few repairs so I thought if I could get hold of one all well and good.

I've had a look around and cant find one. If you see one give me a nod. Yours thankfully Bas

[Peter Roberts]

Hi Bas,

I'm sure you'll really enjoy learning on it. However, once you are flying solo you might want to up throws a little by moving the servo connecting rods to the middle of the control surface horn which will give you much more travel on the control surfaces. The best exponent I have ever seen of flying a Kite in an amazing but safe fashion is Paul Heckles at his school outside Swindon just off the M4. He has 6 or 7 of the Kites as trainers. Once flying if the pandemic rule allow its great to have a day there - maybe with a friend - you'll learn a lot and get a great amount of 'stick' time. http://www.paulhecklesrc.co.uk/en/top/home/

He also flies the Weston Obsession for advanced aerobatics which is a lovely machine to fly too.

Will keep my eyes open

Enjoy your flying

Peter

[Robin Colbourne]

There's a built Flair Kite in the BMFA Classifieds: Flair Kite

and a kit for one on Facebook Marketplace: Flair Kite Mk4 Unstarted Kit

[Peter Roberts]

Brilliant Robin,

There you go Bas and a reasonable price too - go for the kit!

If you don't do let me know our club might want one as another trainer!

Peter

[Basil]

Robin & Peter, thanks for the tips. Most advertisers dont want to be bothered with packing/postage, like the first one, in Yorkshire, I am in Dorset, so that ones out.

Approached the 2nd party in Wales, ask if party will pack/post , awaiting reply.

I have had what looks like a more positive PM from a forum member, with more than one option.

Again THANKS to my fellow members, I let you know the results.

I have tried to get in touch with the Flying School, but no reply so far. Getting time on a Buddy lead is not easy, I have had about 6 flights in 6-8 weeks. Intervals reflects weather and repairs etc. Basically I am feeling a bit low about my progress, its been suggested that it normally takes about a year to master. At my age that could have almost any outcomes.Hence the flying school!!!!!

Bas

Edited By Basil on 13/10/2020 11:52:46

[Peter Roberts]

I totally understand your learning frustration - when I was learning I got 2 flights buddied ona Sunday morning because I was working and eventually decided to go to Paul Heckles - had 2 days there and was successfully taking off, flying round an landing (1 good in 3) and made a massive difference.

If you've emailed Paul Heckles try phoning that's how I last got held of him.

Good luck

Peter

[Robin Colbourne]

Bas, How about this ATC Kite (sic!) in Southampton: ATS Kite in Southampton with Engine & Servos

There are other good trainers around. This 72" Telemaster would be fairly slow: 72" Telemaster on Ebay in Swindon

A wooden MFA Yamamoto would also be good. Its worth having more than one model when you are learning, so a less than perfect arrival doesn't cause a break in your training.

Peter Roberts' suggestion of having rubber banded-on undercarriage is very good advice. You don't want a torn out undercarriage plate stopping a day's flying.

I think this is is one of the Paper Aviation Ezee Pzee Trainers that many people raved about when they first came out. You can see how big it is in comparison to the transmitter next to it, yet it will fly on a .40cu in size engine. Ezee Pzee?

This Ebay seller, Yakovlev, is in Dorset and often has trainer airframes for sale e.g. Carl Goldberg Eagle Trainer

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 13/10/2020 15:03:36

Edited By Robin Colbourne on 13/10/2020 15:04:57

[Basil]

I managed to buy the unused Kite Kit refered to in earlier posts, waiting eagerly for its arrival( And how complete it is). Just wondering how it will fair after being subjected to the handling by Parcel force. The Vendor tried thier best to insure it wasn't damaged, but we will see

I noticed there are some references to electricfication that some of you have carried out. I would be interested in what motor/esc/lipo/prop set up you used, I have been searching the various threads and what little info is there the combo's seem to differ.

Bas

[Wilco Wingco]

I recently had a conversation with Paul Heckle regarding the engine for a Flair Kite. He recons that most people over power them and recommended that an OS 48 FS is more than enough power for a learner. He should know ???

[David Hazell 1]

I bought a second hand v4 Kite and it has a Super Tigre 45 up front. It flies beautifully on that and I am really enjoying learning with it.

[Robin Colbourne]

Basil, I'm glad you were able to get hold of another Kite. Do let us know what the kit is like when you get it and tell us about the build.

Out of interest, does anyone know the differences between the Kites from the various manufacturers, i.e. ATS, JBA and Flair? Plus did Flair make four different marks of Kite themselves?

[Robert Parker]

Hi Robin,

There is no difference between them other than the later ones had a carbon fibre u/c.

JB Aviation advert from 2002, I had one of the ATS kits as well as a flight box, I still have the flight box. I took my A cert at ATS, my model was identical to theirs. I must say it was the best trainer I ever had and I tried a few over the period of my learning. It had the option of being made tail dragger of tricycle u/c.

I have recently purchased a DH71 Tiger Moth Racer which I have wanted for years.

Flair's Kite from their catalogue issue 6 2004. It quotes that, "originally developed and produced by Aerial Target Systems (ATS) and JB Aviation, incorporates all the experience gained in thousands of hours spent teaching novices to fly at the highly professional ATS Model flying School. It offers features unmatched by any other trainer in terms of strength and flying characteristics."

Regards

Robert

[SIMON CRAGG]

We have got two flying in our club. Outstanding model which has stood the test of time.

[Peter Roberts]

My understanding is that the inventor of the Kite was 'jbaviation' and supplied ATS flying school (in which Paul Heckles was one of the instructors) with the Kite which became known as the ATS Kite. I think that version contained modifications suggested by the school to improve it as a trainer.

I think the man who built the Kites for ATS eventually became ill and wasn't able to continue his business and only supplied ATS. I think eventually this wasn't possible and Flair became interested in taking over the manufacture of the Kite and outsourced it to China but to their spec. I was told they had to have a minimum order of a large number of kits and when finally delivered to the UK didn't sell in as big numbers as they hoped so they never commissioned another batch.

At the time Flair beat me to it as I entertained ideas of taking over or licensing the design because I thought it an exceptional plane but that wasn't to be. I still think it an exceptional plane

[Engine Doctor]

The Kite was a great trainer . I used mine for a few "Have go sessions" at the Croydon's club Paddock Wood show some years ago. This s!ot was very popular during the lunch break at the show. My kite was finally killed by a perfect, head on collision with another trainer, ie ;the engines hit head on, who entered the circuit in the wrong direction. A lovely easy to build model with good manners and brilliant glide if the engine cut or ran out of fuel. Would I buy another ? Probably but not at the silly prices some are asking .