RAAF Avon Sabre

[Skip]

Well, I’m very late to the party, in fact if it weren’t for COVID-19 the dance would have been held (the mass build fly-in) and the party would be over. I must be the last to start!

Like others, I would like to start my blog by thanking Martin and Gordon for their time and effort in developing the Sabre model, producing and selling the kit and contributing to the various blogs. Also thanks to Phil Cooke.

At the risk of sounding like an Oscars speech I would also like to thank all those who have written blogs about their respective builds and contributed suggested answers to those who have asked questions. This includes both the experienced builders with their skill and knowledge and the less experienced with their questions. I think if it weren’t for all the build blogs I might not have decided to build my own Sabre.

[Skip]

Why did I decide to jump on board? Does the world need another Sabre build blog? Feel free to pass on this entry, my story is similar to a few others however hopefully it is encouraging to those mentioned in my first post.

I started in RC in the early 90s with a 2 metre floater glider (a Gentle Lady). I chose gliding as it was quieter, didn’t have all the mess associated with 2 stroke fuel and the pilots looked a lot less stressed than the power guys. However I still wanted a plane that looked like a real plane.

I soon discovered slope soaring and PSS in Silent Flight magazine (thanks to Simon Cocker and others) and joined the PSSA. I built Andy Conway’s Hawk and also part built Howard Metcalfe’s F-15. However life got in the way and flying stopped. I did get to a PSSA meeting near York in 2000 thanks to the generous hospitality of Michael Kitchen while I was on holiday in the UK.

In 2019 I my interest was rekindled. I started reading RCM&E and looking at the PSSA website and visited my old glider club. The whole hobby seemed to have change with new technology, foam models, batteries, radio technology etc. A lot to learn. All of the guys at my old glider club now had an electric motor in their models and only 10% built their own models.

I read the Sabre mass build articles in RCM&E and read many of the build blogs here and eventually ordered my kit in June thinking that it would take a long time to get to the other side of the world with logistics impacted by the pandemic. Martin and Gordon got the kit into the postal system within a couple of days and it arrived less than two weeks later with Australia Post even delivering it on a Saturday!

I have been getting my building board sorted out, thanks to some of the comments on the Sabre blogs and the other blogs about that on the model flying website and am about to start building. I won’t have much to contribute, I’ll probably manage to still come up with some new novice/”daft” questions though (a few in the pipeline already!).

[Phil Cooke]

Fantastic to have you on board and taking an active part Skip - it's great to read that the website and magazine articles have influenced you (and no doubt others) into having a go and building traditonally from plans, this has always been one of our main objectives in the mass builds!

I look forward to seeing your Sabre develop. Plenty of time now we have put the event back to May 2021.

Stay safe and enjoy your building!!

[Skip]

Most other Sabre blogs start with their selected colour scheme. I still can’t make up my mind! (I used to be indecisive, now I’m not so sure)

I never thought that I would get to know so much about a plane that I wasn’t originally that interested in. I would like to do a “local” colour scheme and have been looking at Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) examples. This means that it will be an Avon Sabre although I won’t be doing too much to modify the F-86 kit design. If possible I would like something using straight lines (to match my masking and painting skills). I’m not sure what to do about markings at the moment, the blogs discussing decals etc. are helpful.

I’ve narrowed it down to the following. The first is the 76 Squadron Black Panthers aerobatic team scheme.

The next is 76 Squadron’s Red Diamonds aerobatic team (still with a black panther on the fin though!).

Next is the RAAF’s Aircraft Research and Development Unit (ARDU) scheme used for the Sidewinder missile tests. Straight lines and simple markings so this is good. The red is described as “day glo red”. I don't think I'd include the Sidewinders though (a bit complicated).

The first image is the best colour one I can find, it’s a slightly earlier version of the scheme, the black and white photos show the tail is nearly all red.

Melbourne Cricket Ground in the background

Lastly, the one that really caught my eye is the one below. Alas it was never operational and never flew and so I guess it doesn’t really meet the scale criteria (however it is very tempting). It does have an amusing story behind it though. Three men from the Royal Australian Navy were sent on a RAAF “surface finishers” (aircraft painting) course in the early 1980s. The sailors were given a decommissioned Sabre on which to put their new skills into practice and they chose to do the Navy’s VC 724 Squadron’s colours of the time. Once finished they parked it in a place where lots of people would see it. The photo and a somewhat tongue-in-cheek article appeared in “Navy News” and apparently the ex Sabre pilot RAAF Officer Commanding at the base was “far from impressed”! The scheme is also shown below on the Navy VC 724 Squadron Macchi trainers in service at that time.

Full story here:

Link

I think these are the Navy painters:

Macchi trainers in the scheme:

[McG 6969]

Welcome to the 'crazy club', Skip.

As Phil wrote the 'dance & party' aren't really over yet. Plenty of time to complete your build.

The 'day glo red' one looks great for sure but the Navy painters did a nice job as well. Decisions, decisions...

Cheers & keep safe over there

Chris

[Alan Gorham_]

Welcome Skip. Very interesting history of the RAAF use of the Sabre. I particularly liked the pic flying over the MCG. More pics of classic aircraft flying over cricket grounds I say!

[dirk tinck]

Welcome to the partie Skip!

My sabre is ready to dance, but will follow your blog with interest!

Enjoy the build, it's a relaxing one !

[David Sack]

Great R.A.N. story, love the humour. I confess I did a double take when I saw a Sabre in navy colours. EVERYONE knows a Sabre would be **** on a carrier and you need Fury's

Welcome to the build, its been fun so far and there is a wealth of information in the blogs. So many innovative ways that people have approachd problems. Will you fit the sidewinders as per pics ???

I am hoping we will get more videos of early fliers on the PSSA facebook page (wholly unashamed and delliberate promotion of the fb page plus a hint to the early birds!!!!).

[Skip]

Thank you everyone for your encouragement.

Phil – I’m aiming for May 2021 (although at the moment I doubt I will be at the Orme), hopefully a bit earlier than May as the slopes I know of here are coastal and work in the summer breezes (around November to March) so maybe by then. Other things to ponder and make decisions on include learning to fly again and what model to use to do that (I’m thinking of some sort of foamie rather than another build) and I need a new radio system, batteries, battery charger etc. So plenty to do before the Sabre gets launched!

Chris – yes lots of decisions, the scheme is a bit down the list at the moment. Thank you for making your torque rod discussion with Phil public, that was very interesting and helpful for me.

Alan – I’m afraid my library of classic aircraft photos over cricket grounds is a grand total of one!

Dirk – your detailed blog is incredibly helpful, I will be using many of your procedures.

David – not sure about the Sidewinders, I see you are making them on your blog. I’m hoping to not add weight and I’m not sure if I want to introduce that extra work/complexity (keep it simple!), however if I choose that scheme I would sort of feel obligated to include them. I’ll keep you posted.

Cheers all,

Craig

Edited By Skip on 24/08/2020 07:26:05

[Martin Gay]

Skip,

Welcome to the Mass Build.

We have some free drawings of missiles and drop tanks if you want to go down that route!

Martin.

[Skip]

Thanks Martin, I would be interested in obtaining the drawings of the missiles please, not entirely sure yet if I will include them, however helpful to know what would be involved. A few more decisions to be made prior to that.

Also, do you have a drawing for the location and size of the cannon on each side of the fuselage that you used on the prototype (Avon) version? If so may I obtain a copy of that please? It would be one less thing for me to do!

Craig

[Martin Gay]

Craig,

No drawings, Gordon eyeballed the location, but I will photograph their location on the the prototype model.

Martin.

[Skip]

First daft question. Apologies if this has already been covered and I’ve missed it. I would appreciate it if anyone would please give me some details about the battery they are using (or going to use) in their Sabre. The plan shows a battery well forward in the battery box so I assume you have to include something to secure the battery in place as you build the battery box, as once the box is in the fuselage I can’t see that you can reach that far forward.

Fairly rudimentary stuff, however the last time I put a battery in a model was over 20 years ago, it consisted of four AA size Ni-Cads in a two by two formation jammed into the nose of a thin fuselage.

I assume people are using a LiPo, if anyone has time it would be very helpful to know the S number, mAh, how much air time that might give, the battery shape/style and how they are securing it in the battery box and presumably still allowing it to be removed for charging.

By the way Chris and others, I’m still reading all your blogs!

Thanks.

Craig

[Martin Gay]

Craig

I use a four Nimh pack in a two by two format. It's an Enerloop 2000Mah.

I also have about 70g of lead in front of it.

The whole lot is wedged in place in the front of the battery box with foam.

Martin.

[Skip]

Thanks Martin, that's very helpful

[Skip]

I had the opportunity to photograph some details of a CAC (Avon) Sabre the other day. It is presented in one of the colour schemes that I am thinking of using. The aircraft is at the Historic Aircraft Restoration Museum at Shellharbour Regional Airport, about 100km south of Sydney.

Re visits: the museum states that “Admission includes a guided tour through the premises, which owing to them being “working” hangars, requires an escort. The advantage of this approach is that you will not be hampered by barriers and you will be able to experience the aircraft and other displays in a way that is just not possible elsewhere.”

I got to sit in the cockpit of an F111 C, can’t get much closer than that!

Location - where else would a regional airport in Australia be:

There was a reasonable amount of time to take photos however the tour had to keep moving as it is school holidays at the moment and they were very busy, four people in our tour and a very knowledgeable and enthusiastic (volunteer) tour guide. The guide very kindly took me back into the hangar at the end of the tour so I could take photos of the Sabre, he even held my tape measure for me!

The first lot of photos are of the front of the fuselage and the cannon. Their Sabre is the second one produced, and the first delivered to the RAAF (No. A94-901).

I read somewhere that the cannon baffles were installed in the fuselage to stop surging in the engine when the cannons were fired. Not sure how much detail I'm going to attempt to recreate for these.

A few photos below of the air inlet to get the shape right. The Avon Sabre inlet is about 25% larger than the F86 to get enough air into the Avon engine:

[Martin Gay]

Craig,

The amount of detail you add to the model is dependent on your building skill and on how knowledgeable your local "Scale Police" are about the Sabre!

I personally try to trade off one against the other!

Martin.

Edited By Martin Gay on 01/10/2020 12:09:38

[Skip]

Thank you for the wise advice Martin. My aim is to keep it simple however I would like to also try and get into the spirit of things and add a bit of detail if I can. I'm still trying to decide which scheme, I'm thinking an option is the Sidewinders just for static display (no in-flight release mechanism). Do you have a pdf of these that you could send me please?

A few more photos from my visit:

[McG 6969]

Must be really great to have a full-size around to be able to create your own walk-around, Craig.

But then it will quite a hard work to recreate all those service stencils...

'Bon courage', young man.

Cheers

Chris

[Martin Gay]

Hello Craig,

PDF's emailed!

Magnets would probably be the easiest way to hold the sidewinder and the pylons onto the underside of the wing if you are stuck for ideas.

Regards,

Martin

[Skip]

Thanks Martin, email received, the usual very fast and helpful response!

If anyone else has ideas for attaching things such as the missiles for display purposes it would be great to hear please.

Thanks also for your comments Chris, it's surprising how many warnings etc. are on the aircraft when you get up close. I think I'll stick to some roundels and the other large markings!

Craig

[Flyer]

Hi Skip, if it's just for display purposes, I'd use small magnets. Some of the lads fly theirs with missiles and drop tanks held with magnets that knock off on landings.

Nice work too.

Cheers

Ade

[McG 6969]

... +1 for Ade's magnets.

They can be used with a steel roundel on one side or, if you want a stronger fix, just use two of them.

One of them can easily be 'buried' in the wing sheeting and even painted as your wing will be.

Of course taking into account to use the correct pole when gluing them in both parts...

Cheers & keep safe

Chris

[McG 6969]

SORRY, twitchy fingers

Chris

Edited By McG 6969 on 06/10/2020 18:37:34

[Skip]

Thanks Ade and Chris for your comments, I've done a quick search, there are quite a lot of magnets to choose from and some of them seem quite light as well. More to ponder, decisions to be made ....

Cheers,

Craig