Electric control line with R/C ESC

[John T]

Morning all,

I haven't flown a control line model for about 25 years but I'm thinking of giving it a go again. In the current situation I thought electric power would lend itself to solo operation better than i/c.

Now I know that there are electronic timers available for motor control, but I would rather use R/C to give more flexibility. I suppose I could use a normal transmitter strapped to my waist somehow, but I can imagine it would be a bit cumbersome to use, so I wondered if one of the car type transmitters would work.

Is it possible to use a normal aircraft style ESC with these radios? I assume that they have reverse a well as forward throttle control.

Thanks

John

[Phil Green]

Hi John, for pennies you can buy a 2.4 pistol grip model car set from HK, BG, Ali etc which lends itself to a C/L handle conversion. Just a metal ']' shape from the top to the heel but make sure its well anchored!
Change the spring-centred throttle trigger to sprung-off (ie trigger outwards).
R/C aircraft ESCs dont normally have reverse but may have braking (some car escs reverse)

Cheers
Phil

 

Edited By Phil Green on 21/12/2020 12:20:17

[Bob Cotsford]

A clubmate does exactly that, tx in left hand - you only need to control throttle - and C/L handle in right hand, using a standard esc and motor setup. A trigger throttle car tx would probably be easier to operate though I'm not sure about the reverse bit!

[sharpy1071]

One of our members flies control line using a car trigger type controller in his left hand whilst flying the plane with his right hand very succesfully. He is able to set up and then take of by himself without using a launcher person.

[Mark Agate]

I have successfully flown C/L with a pistol-type Tx, though I had to modify the trigger so it sprung to the idle (motor off) position, rather than the middle position. This was because it was designed for use with an ESC which had reverse, so the middle position was off. It worked really well - the only drawback was that if the Rx lost the signal, it would go into a failsafe at half throttle rather than motor off.

[Frank Skilbeck]

Posted by Bob Cotsford on 21/12/2020 12:17:59:

A clubmate does exactly that, tx in left hand - you only need to control throttle - and C/L handle in right hand, using a standard esc and motor setup. A trigger throttle car tx would probably be easier to operate though I'm not sure about the reverse bit!

Yep, we have a member who does the same. But maybe there is an opening here for the single channel 2.4 ghz guys to put something together.

[John T]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I think I'd rather keep the Tx separate from the control handle to keep the bulk down. It sounds as though a pistol grip Tx is the way to go though.

[Phil Green]

I prefer the controls on the handle, that way I've a free hand to save myself when I fall over...

 

Edited By Phil Green on 21/12/2020 16:38:10

[perttime]

Posted by Phil Green on 21/12/2020 16:28:59:

I prefer the controls on the handle, that way I've a free hand to save myself when I fall over...

Edited By Phil Green on 21/12/2020 16:38:10

Lots of people break their wrists by breaking a fall with the hand.

There are safer ways to fall over.

[Simon Chaddock]

John T

If you are using RC do you have to stand in the circle at all?

Under the regulations 'tethered' RC does make some sense.

Many years ago I flew indoor electric true control line but from outside the circle on short lines at home.

[Phil Green]

but you dont get that 'connected' feeling that you get with trad C/L...

[Mowerman]

If you fly from outside the circle using R/C that makes it more like RTP .

[Simon Chaddock]

"but you dont get that 'connected' feeling that you get with trad C/L..."

But you don't get giddy either!

[J D 8]

A month or so ago a mate and I got together to fly some control line, some thing we had not done for a long time. So some old aeroplanes were got going and away we went.

We both ended up rather wobbly. It was quite funny watching your mate getting wobblier and wobblier until he fell over. [ No people or aeroplanes were harmed during this activity, thick grass and boggy ground helped. ]

I thought then that remote flying outside the circle via RC might work and rather than control the plane with on board RC, control the handle on top of the pole. That way one could carry on using standard CL aircraft and even solo launch and fly from rough ground.

,

[John T]

Simon; The physical connection to a C/L model gives a feeling of control you just don't get with R/C. That's why I only want the R/C for the motor.

JD8; In the last "SAM 35 Speaks" magazine (the magazine that SAM 35 members get, well worth the membership fee) there's a couple of people who have been developing R/C pole controls to fly C/L models from outside the circle. It's not quite as straight forward is it appears at first if you want full control over the entire hemisphere.

[J D 8]

Thanks for the info John, as Phil says it is the lack of feel that I recon will be the problem for any more than just going round and round.

Cheers, John.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

My C/L experience is limited (some as a teenager and a quick flirtation a few years ago with a plan-built Phantom Mite) so I may well be missing the subtleties...

I've certainly heard this viewpoint from those who had tried radio control in earlier days - perhaps with single channel, galloping ghost, reeds or early proportional - and I had always rubbished suggestions that high end radios could make any difference until I bought a transmitter capable of high data rates and 4096 step resolution. After a short time, I realised that I had an enhanced feeling of connection with my models, unchanged except for being bound to the new transmitter.

The realisation actually came as a bit of a shock to me so I don't think it was something I was looking to find to justify my choice of radio.

Edited By Martin Harris on 22/12/2020 18:57:19

[J D 8]

By " feel" I recon in control line we mean the load on the lines which is vital to maintain control, If one feels the lines going light you can alter the flight pattern or step back to maintain tension. lines slack and crash go together.

[Danny Fenton]

The feel is very important with control line, you have to be able to feel the line tension, and feel the wind altering the tension.

I returned to control line after after several decades of doing "other" things, and one of the important things for me was a throttle. I am not as young as I was when I last flew, and was worried I would get dizzy. Having a throttle gave me two things, the ability to alter the lap-times, ie the speed. And the ability to bring the flight to an end if it all got too much.

I use a standard FrSky Tx on a tray around my neck, others hang the tx from their belt. As I have flown RC (mode 2) for some time, it was easy to use a tray and handle the throttle and (flaps) with my left hand and the handle with my right.

One thing that did catch me out, is I always flew with my left hand in my pocket, back in the day. I have had to teach myself to keep my thumb on the stick so that in an emergency I can throttle back quickly. But whatever you are comfortable with...

I started with a flight on an electric PT19 (Hangar 9 I think) and then competed in the C/L Scale Nats so it does come back quite quickly

I have subsequently built a few electric Ringmasters.

I use a very small 4 chan FRSky Rx a 40A esc. The Rx is actually inside the fus, under the ESC.

Cheers

Danny

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Perhaps I should crank the mighty (DC) Merlin into life again soon - but although it was fun to have a go with C/L again, I can't say that it gave me anything like the enjoyment of the full freedom of RC flying - and I was feeling slightly dizzy after landing!

[Bob Cotsford]

I spoke to my clubmate, Ken Goodman, and he told me that he used a car controller as he is a mode 1 flyer making throttle control by thumb a bit of a pain with a conventional tx. He now uses an electronic timer as he didn't find throttle control much use on the style of models that he flies - combat wings.

[John T]

All interesting stuff.

As I fly mode 1 I think I might be better off using a car controller.

Danny; thanks for the posting. What motor are you using in the Ringmaster S-1 and what length line are you flying it on? Also, do you still need extra tip weight with the battery mounted outboard?

[Danny Fenton]

No probs John, i never tried a hand controller, and was worried i would be unable to hold it steady. You could try a cheap mode 2 tx.

I use 65 foot lines on the S1 and the Bryant Chippy, if it is windy you can use shorter lines.

I am on a 3S 1500 lipo, the motor and prop i will need to check.

I still use some tip weight. But tbh i am not very scientific about it. Not a good enough flyer to appreciate altering things.

Will post motor and prop later. I prefer big slow props with electric, but ground clearance means the props are shorter. And KV hogher

Cheers

Danny

[Danny Fenton]

The motor is a Turnigy 3530, with kV of 1400 swinging an 8 x 6 APC electric on 3S.

Cheers

Danny

[Capt Kremen]

Maybe of interest, here are some pics of an electric control line model. This was recreated from details published in the March 1949 Aeromodeller magazine. This replica was powered from 10 NiCad cells held on the trouser belt! Current was fed 'down-the-lines' to drive a MFA Speed 400 belt drive unit. I took this model to a vintage/old-timer meeting in the States and it was flown by Hal 'Happy' De Bolt the famous pioneer of modelling.