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DX8 Warranty message ????


tigerman
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This is a huge issue I have with "modern technology".

Perhaps I'm on my own, but i firmly believe tech (and most things man has created) is there to serve humans. Unfortunately, too often we become the servant to the technology. I can not stand tech telling me what to do, e.g. the technology demand i must update it, i must charge it, i must link it to some other thing, i must purchase some other add on, i must register it on some website etc etc.

Remember the olden days when you could figure out how to tune a tv in? plug in the aerial, and twist some knobs until the picture appeared? Now you literally have to know satellite and LNB information.

I think the engineers/designers must be too caught up in their excitement about their latest product and rush it to market to beat the competition, and forget the end user who isn't one of their ilk. (Much like the OP i assume).

If i was the manufacturer of this product, my product would (and i believe most people would appreciate):

(a) not demand updates every time it is operated

(b) if it needed updates, in 95% of cases it wasn't ready to go to market, possibly because it wasn't developed properly/rushed to market. If the updates were "optional", then be that. Don't demand i do it. (like it seems every PC program to upgrade to the latest version.) Clearly nothing important would go in an optional update, as giving away upgrades/more features isn't going to be a successful ongoing business model.

(c) the update process would be automatic/simple. I do not see registering on a website, downloading a file, copying it to a SD card as a simple process. (as it appears to be the required process here), as it requires the use of at least two other systems to be navigated and function correctly.

One of my favourite anecdotes: When my work PC starts annoying me i just rip the plug out of the wall and reboot from cold. All my work mates are horrified "you can't do that etc etc". My standard reply is "well, what happens in a power cut?" No one has yet come up an appropriate response. Mine however is if the computer can't handle the odd power cut, then it isn't suitable to be plugged in the mains, to which most will agree.

And I'm a 40 year old electrician!

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Posted by Nigel R on 01/01/2021 21:18:34:
Posted by Roger Jones 3 on 01/01/2021 20:18:47:

 

You make a fair point but if the OP's report is true Spektrum should not have made it dependent on WMP, which is a weird choice for this sort of stuff. Nowadays it's a weird choice for anything.

Also why should it not work straight our of the box? All mine except the old Multiplex Profi 4000 did, initially living with the default settings. The Profi had no defaults, as was well explained in its manual.

They didn't, and it isn't.

I don't think you've quite understood the issue.

The DX8 does work out the box. It simply nags the user to update the latest firmware when you switch it off. Not an unreasonable request.

Spektrum have not involved WMP in anything.

It's hardly my fault if the OP is not telling the truth or has got muddled up. I just think about the posts as they are written down.

As for Spektrum's nagging, I will NOT be nagged by a mere machine. So given that information I won't buy one. I'm put off anyway - why are all the 'Asian' radios styled like 1950's jukeboxes but with even worse ergonomics, both in their hardware and software?

I've been in the computer design and development trade since 1976. From the IBM System 370 though to the hopefully close to very limited production IBM System Q, and I know very well that if the user can make a ,mistake that leaves him stuck he eventually will. So the system should be totally clear in what is needed and allow for the eccentricities of any external OS it might need to use. And it obviously didn't do either or he would not have needed to ask us questions. Not everyone who plays with toy planes is a computer genius.

PS: To Dale Bradly.  I agree with your post 100 percent. But remember most of the 'consumer' computer stuff is 'GISMOLOGY', not 'technology'. They add new feechers just because they can smiley

Edited By Roger Jones 3 on 02/01/2021 07:32:12

Edited By Roger Jones 3 on 02/01/2021 07:41:11

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Today's gadgets are mainly software based, so you have to accept that your radio, computer, phone, etc will have software updates. Software is so complex and huge that not every bug can be identified and fixed and when found at a later date, a patch can be incorporated.

Even rocket engineers aren't immune from mistakes, the recent Space X launch was a glitch, software wasn't correct and didn't give enough thrust for a gentle touch down, probably had the wrong program running for landing on Mars, not earth, as Mars has less gravity, less thrust, but you don't run that landing on earth! oops.

Tech is here, no going back, be one with the force...laugh

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As systems become more complex in order to improve their performance and flexibility, there must come a point where development is halted in order to get them to market. If I buy a light bulb, I expect it to work without any further interference for its entire life but with complexity comes adaptibility. In the case of the transmitter I bought in 2013, feedback from users and further development has turned a very satisfactory 16 channel system into a far more feature rich 24 channel one. Performing an update every six months or so has brought rich rewards.

 

Edited By Martin Harris - Moderator on 02/01/2021 10:29:30

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Dale- while unplugging a pc is exactly what happens in a power cut it's still a bad idea.

1. If you're using a mechanical hard disk the arms on the platters won't have a chance to safely park so there's a good chance of damaging the disc (particularly if you move the pc but it's never a great idea)

2. If your computer has a ssd you risk data loss also. SSD chips only write a finite number of times so the associated controllers keep data in volatile mentions and only write when there is a whole page to write. If you abruptly remove power without signaling a shutdown you risk losing this data.

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When I bought my DX18QQ it had 50 model memories and some mixes it wouldn't do. A couple of patches later, it now has 250 model memories and more mixes, plus more. Seems there was enough memory to add model memories and such, after time, the developers probably released it and improved as time went by.

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One day our toasters and kettles might even need updating before switching on ... and how about our ovens 😳. I understand why but agree it seems a necessary pain at the moment... hopefully manufacturers someday will make it easier. 

 

 

Edited By Tim Flyer on 02/01/2021 12:16:53

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Posted by Martin Harris - Moderator on 02/01/2021 10:27:49:

As systems become more complex in order to improve their performance and flexibility, there must come a point where development is halted in order to get them to market. If I buy a light bulb, I expect it to work without any further interference for its entire life but with complexity comes adaptibility. In the case of the transmitter I bought in 2013, feedback from users and further development has turned a very satisfactory 16 channel system into a far more feature rich 24 channel one. Performing an update every six months or so has brought rich rewards.

Edited By Martin Harris - Moderator on 02/01/2021 10:29:30

You purchased it. It worked. In your own words it was very satisfactory.

Barring physical damage it will keep working 'forever' as ir is.

"Far more feature rich" Once upon a time I could not stand on my head while drinking a half pint of beer. Now I can. I have not found this ability very useful.

Please tell us how many of your model planes need more than 16 channels.

QED.

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Posted by Dale Bradly on 02/01/2021 06:28:44:

This is a huge issue I have with "modern technology".

Remember the olden days when you could figure out how to tune a tv in? plug in the aerial, and twist some knobs until the picture appeared? Now you literally have to know satellite and LNB information.

Hmm, when TVs were first available post-war (1949 for the Sutton Coldfield transmitter) they needed quite a lot of semi-technical user input. Customers needed support to be able to use the new technology. Receivers, even though they were set to receive the only broadcast available (BBC) often needed adjustment by the user and frame and horizontal hold controls were accessible at the front. I instructed lots of people how to adjust the picture - some of them several times

I suppose people had the same problem with telephones (ours had a magneto exchange system where you had to wind a handle to start a call and you needed the operator to connect you to another subscriber). New technology has always had a learning curve for new users - imagine the leap from horses to tractors for instance (also largely post-war).

Many of my junior school friends lived in houses with no electricity - they had gas lighting ... and no indoor plumbing. Things have changed a lot in my lifetime - 81 next week

Geoff

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Posted by Roger Jones 3 on 02/01/2021 14:40:31:
Posted by Martin Harris - Moderator on 02/01/2021 10:27:49:

As systems become more complex in order to improve their performance and flexibility, there must come a point where development is halted in order to get them to market. If I buy a light bulb, I expect it to work without any further interference for its entire life but with complexity comes adaptibility. In the case of the transmitter I bought in 2013, feedback from users and further development has turned a very satisfactory 16 channel system into a far more feature rich 24 channel one. Performing an update every six months or so has brought rich rewards.

Edited By Martin Harris - Moderator on 02/01/2021 10:29:30

You purchased it. It worked. In your own words it was very satisfactory.

Barring physical damage it will keep working 'forever' as ir is.

"Far more feature rich" Once upon a time I could not stand on my head while drinking a half pint of beer. Now I can. I have not found this ability very useful.

Please tell us how many of your model planes need more than 16 channels.

QED.

I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear that I've yet to exceed 16 channels but this was just one of the "headline" improvements made - and it's surprising how quickly you can go through channels while creating advanced mixes - these channels don't necessarily have to use a servo on each of them. My current scale project will use at least 15 channels and if I add a few more features such as an opening canopy may well stray into the "new" channels.

What would not be obvious to the uninitiated is the myriad of improvements made possible by input from users and support for new products that have been added to the portfolio, both by the manufacturer and third party suppliers.

None of these updates have been compulsory (with the possible exception of a couple where users have managed to discover unusual circumstances which made further upgrades desirable) - and these revisions were produced extremely quickly (I'm talking days, not weeks).

I could certainly still be using the original firmware as no upgrades were forced on me but I have been delighted with the continuing enhancement of what was already a decent system.

None of the above is particularly relevant to the OP but the problem was solved and the ongoing discussion has some relevance to his difficulties. As a non-Spektrum user, I have no real idea of the purpose of the warranty nag screen but it seems that it could be ignored without serious disadvantage to a user unwilling to perform a software upgrade.

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Posted by Martin Harris - Moderator on 03/01/2021 00:29:22:
Posted by Roger Jones 3 on 02/01/2021 14:40:31:
Posted by Martin Harris - Moderator on 02/01/2021 10:27:49:

As systems become more complex in order to improve their performance and flexibility, there must come a point where development is halted in order to get them to market. If I buy a light bulb, I expect it to work without any further interference for its entire life but with complexity comes adaptibility. In the case of the transmitter I bought in 2013, feedback from users and further development has turned a very satisfactory 16 channel system into a far more feature rich 24 channel one. Performing an update every six months or so has brought rich rewards.

 

Edited By Martin Harris - Moderator on 02/01/2021 10:29:30

You purchased it. It worked. In your own words it was very satisfactory.

Barring physical damage it will keep working 'forever' as ir is.

"Far more feature rich" Once upon a time I could not stand on my head while drinking a half pint of beer. Now I can. I have not found this ability very useful.

Please tell us how many of your model planes need more than 16 channels.

QED.

I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear that I've yet to exceed 16 channels but this was just one of the "headline" improvements made - and it's surprising how quickly you can go through channels while creating advanced mixes - these channels don't necessarily have to use a servo on each of them. My current scale project will use at least 15 channels and if I add a few more features such as an opening canopy may well stray into the "new" channels.

What would not be obvious to the uninitiated is the myriad of improvements made possible by input from users and support for new products that have been added to the portfolio, both by the manufacturer and third party suppliers.

None of these updates have been compulsory (with the possible exception of a couple where users have managed to discover unusual circumstances which made further upgrades desirable) - and these revisions were produced extremely quickly (I'm talking days, not weeks).

I could certainly still be using the original firmware as no upgrades were forced on me but I have been delighted with the continuing enhancement of what was already a decent system.

None of the above is particularly relevant to the OP but the problem was solved and the ongoing discussion has some relevance to his difficulties. As a non-Spektrum user, I have no real idea of the purpose of the warranty nag screen but it seems that it could be ignored without serious disadvantage to a user unwilling to perform a software upgrade.

 

Martin,

Thank you very much.

My radio choice is Multiplex. I have had them since the first 'Evo' appeared and they have all the bells and whistles. Their 'programming' (as everyone incorrectly calls it) is totally different from everyone else's and far more intuitive, which as a professional 'systems' programmer I approve of.

I have zero interest in telemetry or voice but they do have them. Mine are all 16 channel because 'Why not?' but the maximum I have used is 10, on a complicated scratch-built EDF F-100 Super Sabre. I didn't bother with the 18,000 rivets, an opening cockpit and the pilot picking his nose.

Though I keep the scale outlines/cross sections accurate I don't bother with anything that can't be seen when it's in the air as I don't build flying doll's houses.

I have been doing this stuff since the late 1950's. I now have three Evo's, (their best but not their most expensive radio) two kept as spares as they are now discontinued, and one of the 'new' Profis just 'because I could'.

I also have a 'Pro Line Competition 7' that I purchased new in the USA in 1975. This was the best, and one of the last US made radios. I believe mine was then, and still is, the only one in the UK as they were never formally imported and would have been very expensive by UK standards - about double the price of a Kraft. It is noted for its sticks, which some say are the best ever made. I fitted it with an Mpx 2.4 module and I use it it for every plane that has no more than 7 channels and doesn't need mixers (most of mine don't).

The Pro Line  designer, who is still alive, went on  to design and develop all the 'Dolby' film systems. Dolby himself had very little technical knowledge.

Why Multiplex? Because they don't look like 1950's juke boxes (all 'Asian' radios) or a 1940's ham radio (Jeti).

Cheers, Roger

Edited By Roger Jones 3 on 03/01/2021 06:03:08

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Must admit I don’t particularly like the styling on the radios I use (Futaba) however the TX case is good quality and fits nicely in my hands and I find settings easy. I like having the metal carry handle too. I do actually really like the Jeti retro styling, although I haven’t ever owned one probably due to high cost of changing receivers etc. One of the most important features for me is telemetry as I mostly fly IC models and use it for pre flight battery /system  checking. Once in the air it’s not quite so useful apart from in alarm/vibe or voice modes. 

Radios are very much personal choice and I must admit I grew up on Futaba radios and am very happy sticking to that... I can see why many also like the Spektrum gear with its feature rich sets and scroll wheel setting. Quite a few of our club members have Spektrum (especially DX7/DX8) and it does seem relatively beginner friendly too.. I do use an old dx6i for some of my small indoor helicopters .. one man’s meat is another mans poison😉.

Edited By Tim Flyer on 03/01/2021 10:42:02

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I bought a DX8 G2 brand new from UK dealer and thought I would be a good boy and register it , long story short it was already registered and I had to wait while Spectrum contacted them to de-register so I could . They were evasive as to why it was already registered but I suspect it was originally faulty and factory refurbished but I paid for new ! Bit late now had it more than 2 years but leaves a bad taste in the mouth , last month bought a Radiomaster TX16S to replace an ageing Frsky QX7 and wonder after playing with it where Spectrum get there pricing structure from .

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Yes Bas all flavours DSM2 DSMX Flysky Frsky and others . The transmit module is multiprotocol even does all those cheapo bundled toys with a transmitter . I've tested on several flavours of Frsky receivers and its all good and tested it on my latest Spectrum AR636 AR8010 receivers all work no problem . Just Google it loads of info about it tutorials etc thats how I found it and for £130 you can't go wrong . Downside its OpenTX operating system but once you get used to it its a doddle but a little daunting at first but it has wizards to build models on the TX or use supplied USB to connect to software on PC and do it from there and upload back to transmitter .

There are probably more YouTube videos on it than Spectrum videos . As Del boy says " the worlds your lobster"

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For me, OpenTX would be a big plus . Just had a quick look at some Radiomaster images and the colour screen images look very like the ones on my Horus X10.

The price at Bangood (they were most prominent on the Duckduckgo search) range from £82 through £124 to £189. I think th difference between £82 and £124 is Hall effect sensors on the joysticks. Not sure what you get extra for the £189 version. I assume all are multiprotocol but I haven't studied deeply.

Certainly looks a good deal for lobsters

btw How can Frsky QX7 be ageing? They've only been out for a short time. My Mutiplex 3030 35Mhz transmitter might just about qualify as old but a QX7? Perhaps my age has distorted my view

Geoff

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The dearest version (S) comes with a bling facia and anodised alloy bits like stick ends, switch rings, gimbal spacers, switches and knobs, a lot to pay extra for the priviledge.

They are all multi protocol from an internal module, come with USB-C charging, folding handle and a not yet enabled touch screen.

Edited By Phil McCavity on 03/01/2021 16:34:44

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Posted by Geoff S on 03/01/2021 16:27:29:

btw How can Frsky QX7 be ageing? They've only been out for a short time. My Mutiplex 3030 35Mhz transmitter might just about qualify as old but a QX7? Perhaps my age has distorted my view

Geoff

Single protocol, lack of a scroll wheel and 128x64 Grayscale displays are so last year! smiley

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