Import tax/VAT from europe.

[Jon H]

I have been trying to decipher how import duty and all that now applies to things bought from europe.

The full story is that i am looking at buying a guitar from a company in Germany. Over night, the price has dropped 20% as, i assume, EU VAT is no longer applied now we have jumped ship.

So, if i ship it here i assume i need to pay the VAT?? And are there any other new and exciting taxes to pay?

I tried looking at the hmrc pages but its really not clear at all. Clearly this issue will impact modelling items as well so i thought it best to ask here as its helpful to know ahead of time how much things are going to cost.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I'm certainly no expert but I think we now pay VAT to the UK rather than at the various rates to the originating country as was the rule before.

[Roger Jones 3]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 01/01/2021 15:11:39:

I have been trying to decipher how import duty and all that now applies to things bought from europe.

The full story is that i am looking at buying a guitar from a company in Germany. Over night, the price has dropped 20% as, i assume, EU VAT is no longer applied now we have jumped ship.

So, if i ship it here i assume i need to pay the VAT?? And are there any other new and exciting taxes to pay?

I tried looking at the hmrc pages but its really not clear at all. Clearly this issue will impact modelling items as well so i thought it best to ask here as its helpful to know ahead of time how much things are going to cost.

My only concern is that I often buy Hacker motors direct from their factory in Germany. UK VAT was charged at the time of (online) purchase and there was no customs delay - they arrived within two or three days. All this may not be true now, I'm not in any hurry, so I'm waiting for it all to settle down.

Note I am NOT voicing an opinion. Asking such a question on a forum will result in several opinions, all different, so it serves no purpose

[BackinBlack]

We have to pay UK VAT on imported goods, as we (should) have done previously on all goods imported form outside the EU. But don't worry, like it or not, your friendly courier will take care of all that for you for a modest fee!

[Dickw]

My previous purchase from the Eu have always included VAT at the rate applicable in the country I was buying from, and no further costs added.

I recently purchase some electronic equipment from the USA and for an item at a cost of £124.96 (including postage) the courier charged me an extra £16.10 customs duties etc. (no idea how that was calculated so don't ask!)

I expect imports from the Eu will now be similar to imports from other places like the USA.

Dick

ps I have just found and downloaded the customs forms I may now need when sending an item back to the Eu for repair

[Jon H]

Ok so as it was before i just paid that VAT in germany and that was good enough to cover me here. Now, i dont pay the VAT to germany but pay it here instead.

That should mean everything is the same price and i dont really care who i pay the tax to, its additional charges that concern me. I might just have to suck it and see.

On the flip side, i guess EU customers of Laser will need to pay an ex VAT price now? and then pay it locally when it arrives?

ugh. why we couldnt just stay put i will never know. This all worked just fine before.

[Dickw]

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 01/01/2021 16:00:48:.................

On the flip side, i guess EU customers of Laser will need to pay an ex VAT price now? and then pay it locally when it arrives?

ugh. why we couldnt just stay put i will never know. This all worked just fine before.

The price/taxes they pay locally will presumably be based on whatever value and description you put on the customs documents (CN22 or CN23) on the outside of the parcel.

Dick

[Jon H]

Posted by Dickw on 01/01/2021 16:06:11:

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 01/01/2021 16:00:48:.................

On the flip side, i guess EU customers of Laser will need to pay an ex VAT price now? and then pay it locally when it arrives?

ugh. why we couldnt just stay put i will never know. This all worked just fine before.

The price/taxes they pay locally will presumably be based on whatever value and description you put on the customs documents (CN22 or CN23) on the outside of the parcel.

Dick

Yea no doubt. Makes everything more complicated though either way

[Frank Skilbeck]

Hopefully the shipping companies will become more competitive in the collection of the UK VAT and fees will reduce. Maybe we will be able to agree some standard fee with the EU for VAT collection, otherwise individual countries could use this a deterrent to stop customers from buying direct from the UK.

I haven't tried it but I think there is a way of prepaying the UK VAT and then the shipper can declare it as prepaid so it doesn't attract the fee, see here for rules on importing goods and countries already signed up for the prepayment. Note also that it says that goods under £135 are free from VAT and the collection fee (at least that's how I read it!)

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

That sounds like generally good news - and I do care a little that my VAT on imports from the EU will go to the UK coffers rather than the EU country of origin as was the case prior to today.

The one slightly worrying thing that I hadn't appreciated is: Under customs law, you (as the importer) are legally responsible for the information on the declaration. Therefore, it’s in your own interest to make sure, wherever possible, that the sender abroad completes the declaration accurately and in full.

Quite how I can police what someone in China puts on a package is a little beyond me, short of incriminating myself by ticking a box to accept a lowered value as was offered by Hobbyking in days gone by.

Edited By Martin Harris - Moderator on 01/01/2021 16:33:35

[Pete B]

Am I right in recalling that Parcelforce used to add about £14 handling charge to imports which were subject to Duty, no matter how little the duty was? It's been a while since I had deliveries to the UK, so my memory might be a bit hazy....

Pete

[Brian Cooper]

Buy it quick. . . . . . before the various agencies start to make sense of any new regulations.

[kevin b]

Yes Pete, they still do and as far as I am aware they are the only private company in the U.K. who are legally allowed to charge the customer for collecting U.K. tax. Unlike every other retail business, which aren't.

[Brian Sweeting 1]

One word of caution if I may. A while ago I bought some handtools from the USA with a US totsal value of around 50usd.

I expected to pay some form of import costs but was dismayed to find that the courier company based there costs on the wrong numbers meanig I paid about 40% more than I should have done.

What they did was look at the dollar value and write it down as gb pounds before doing the calculations and tax markups.

I gave up trying to contact the couriers about it, my choice of course however, if there are any costs added to a package check the sums and regiister a complaint with the driver.

It's all good fun from here on in.

[Jon H]

Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 01/01/2021 17:46:31:

Am I right in recalling that Parcelforce used to add about £14 handling charge to imports which were subject to Duty, no matter how little the duty was? It's been a while since I had deliveries to the UK, so my memory might be a bit hazy....

Pete

Yea this is what concerns me. The price of the item is fine, whoever gets the VAT as its the same price. What i dont want is to find shed loads of other charges sneaking in

[Alan Gorham_]

Posted by Roger Jones 3 on 01/01/2021 15:39:37:

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 01/01/2021 15:11:39:

I have been trying to decipher how import duty and all that now applies to things bought from europe.

The full story is that i am looking at buying a guitar from a company in Germany. Over night, the price has dropped 20% as, i assume, EU VAT is no longer applied now we have jumped ship.

So, if i ship it here i assume i need to pay the VAT?? And are there any other new and exciting taxes to pay?

I tried looking at the hmrc pages but its really not clear at all. Clearly this issue will impact modelling items as well so i thought it best to ask here as its helpful to know ahead of time how much things are going to cost.

My only concern is that I often buy Hacker motors direct from their factory in Germany. UK VAT was charged at the time of (online) purchase and there was no customs delay - they arrived within two or three days. All this may not be true now, I'm not in any hurry, so I'm waiting for it all to settle down.

Note I am NOT voicing an opinion. Asking such a question on a forum will result in several opinions, all different, so it serves no purpose

I think it is more likely that Hacker applied the rate of VAT in their country and you have perceived this to be the UK VAT rate because it is similar.

[John Privett]

Posted by Pete B - Moderator on 01/01/2021 17:46:31:

Am I right in recalling that Parcelforce used to add about £14 handling charge to imports which were subject to Duty, no matter how little the duty was? It's been a while since I had deliveries to the UK, so my memory might be a bit hazy....

I got stung by that one several years ago. Parcelforce demanded a total of £21 to pay a tax/duty bill of £7 on an item I had bought from Hong Kong or Singapore.

I commented to the man on the counter at the pickup office that an extra "admin" charge that was double the amount of duty they were collecting was absurd. The man responded by simply standing and grinning like an idiot - which, as I've mentioned before - he did very convincingly!

The problem is, of course, that very rarely do we - buying goods from overseas - get to choose which courier handles the import and delivery at this end.

[cymaz]

We’ve had it good for many years. Getting away with import duties, vat, most- not all - of the time for our foreign purchases while the local model shop stands idle.

Now, I’m the first to admit, I’ve bought abroad....Europe, China, USA. It’s about time for the uk shop to get more of the orders.

If we have to wait for the uk order so be it, we’re going to pay more for it which ever way it comes in now. Right, that’s my head above the parapet

 

 

 

 

Edited By cymaz on 01/01/2021 22:44:30

[kevin b]

You're not wrong Cymaz. Most of us have (to our advantage) worked the import system, for instance buying the same item twice over several days to avoid going over the duty threshold and taking advantage of China's postal advantage. The system has now changed so get used to it guys. The best deals might now be had closer to home !

My only gripe is that shipping is based on weight and that tax is based on value plus shipping. Therefore the heavier it is the more tax you pay !

[cymaz]

Posted by kevin b on 01/01/2021 23:15:51:

You're not wrong Cymaz. Most of us have (to our advantage) worked the import system, for instance buying the same item twice over several days to avoid going over the duty threshold and taking advantage of China's postal advantage. The system has now changed so get used to it guys. The best deals might now be had closer to home !

My only gripe is that shipping is based on weight and that tax is based on value plus shipping. Therefore the heavier it is the more tax you pay !

Shipping costs could be a whole thread all on its own! I’m sure it’s been done somewhere. When buying, I do take this into account....it’s the final bill that counts. I’ve noticed there are more uk shops giving free p& p on certain items and over certain amounts.

Buying a big purchase ( artf ) , I’ve not bought the cheapest price but combined with postage costs it’s the best

[Frank Skilbeck]

Reading the new regulations it looks like goods less than £135 will be VAT free, so for purchases of less then £135 overseas suppliers seem to have a 20% advantage.

[Ben B]

It'll still be paid. Just in the country of sale and most of Europe has a vat rate of 21.5% so not really an advantage

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

[Frank Skilbeck]

So I am guessing that EU suppliers will know that for orders under 150 Euro they charge their local VAT but above they ship VAT free and the importer pays? Probably vice-versa for UK suppliers to the EU. But this from a policy paper dated 3rd Dec so the final trade deal may differ all should be come clear in the next few weeks, hopefully.........

[Bob Cotsford]

no, read the document and to me it's clear as mud.

Edited By Bob Cotsford on 02/01/2021 11:43:58

[John Lee]

I found the International courier's FAQ's on the subject give a clearer explanation, eg DHL