Matt Carlton Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Hello Pardon my ignorance. I just wondered if anyone could cast an eye over the following planned setups for 3 models. They may not be optimum, just whether they will work well. All from Overlander to make shopping easier. 1 - LS Special (Peter Miller) - 34" span, approx 1.5lb AUW, originally intended for a 1.5cc diesel or .10 2S. Planned setup - Tornado Thumper 2836/08 (1120kv), 3S 1600 35C, XP2 30A ESC, 8x6 APC E 2 - Amelia (Dereck Woodward) - 47" span, approx 2.75lb AUW, originally .20 or .26FS powered. Planned setup - Tornado Thumper 3536/08 (1050kv), 3S 2200 35C, XP2 40SBEC ESC, ASP 9x6 E 3 - FunFly (SLEC) - 55" span, 4.5lb AUW, currently powered by ASP .40 2S. Planned setup - Tornado Thumper 5045/10 (720kv), 4S 3350 35C, XP2 80A SBEC ESC, ASP 12x6 or 13x4. Your thoughts would be illuminating! Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 The best advice that I can give you is to phone George at 4Max and give him the specs of the models. He will give you the best set up. That is what I do always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Carlton Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 Thanks Peter, I'll give him a shout. The only caveat to that seems to be that his prices seem a little high maybe. If I take the Amelia as an example, the 4max setup for an Ohmen (roughly the same size) comes in at £94.44 for motor, ESC and Lipo, Vs £67.95 for the same setup (more or less) from O/L. There may be, probably are, very good reasons for the 4max combo costing 50% more than the equivalent O/L one, but I'm not knowledge enough to know what they are! I'm happy to be educated though, as I certainly don't want to waste my dosh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCavity Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 We see posts with the repetitive cry that there are no UK traders to deal with or local shops to visit. His prices may be higher but It's supporting a home supplier Matt, something we need to accept and should be doing from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Walby Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 IMHO there is a few ways to tackle ic and electric power plant set ups Follow designers recommendation including where the designer uses another supplier Research the model in question and what others have used or similar set ups Design it yourself using motor calc software I have used all three depending on the model of interest although as Peter uses 4-max and George is kind enough to publish all of the set ups for multiple designers it makes the task easier. There are a couple of benefits of using 4-max IMO and they are firstly the quality, secondly George will tell you if stuff is in stock or when its coming in and thirdly if you have a problem he will help you out. PS I had a problem a few weeks ago with a delta twin that George had supplied the props, motors, UBEC and ESC's for and after about 10 minutes on the phone he and identified were the problem was. After I had corrected my TX mix issue all was well and my point, there was nothing wrong with the 4-max kit. There is always someone who will tell you they got it cheaper from somewhere else, well that's ok, but if the UBEC/ESC dies on you its not just the cost of the component to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Carlton Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 Some very good points and of course there is a lot more to it than cost. Service, availability and quality are obviously very important and perhaps not very easy to put a ££ value on, but as you say, if saving £20 ends up costing £200 it's not much of an economy! I suppose I just struggle to see cost difference, especially in terms of ESC. But as I say, always happy to be educated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Matt, the Tornado Thumper motors are not listed on ecalc, but using a similar sized and same KV motor I get the following on your proposed set ups 1) 170 watts, 35ozs static thrust, 17 amps - so that looks fine and you have the option of increasing prop size if you need a bit more power. 2) 190 watts, 40 ozs static thrust, 18 amps - so that looks a bit light and an 11 x 6 prop would give 300w, 55 oz thrust, 30amps 3) 350 watts, 60 oz static thrust, 26 amps - so that looks a bit light and an 14 x 7 prop would give 500w, 80oz thrust, 38amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Carlton Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 Thanks Frank, very helpful. I Might have to look again at No.3 as 150W/lb x 4.5 = 675W. No.2 is interesting, not sure if there's enough ground clearance for an 11" prop. Possibly a higher kv motor might be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Matt an ASP40 turning a 10 x 6 at 11,000 rpm gives around 55 ozs of thrust, according to this thrust calculator Also if you want a free electric motor calculator have a look at drivecalc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Carlton Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 I had a look at ecalc and plugged in a few figures. Not sure how optimistic they are; Turnigy Propdrive 3530/1400, APC 9 X 4.5, 3S 2700 331W, 53oz static thrust, 32A - looks ideal for No.2. For No.3; Turnigy Propdrive 3548/1100, APC 11.5x6, 3S 4200 554W, 91oz static thrust, 53A. Seems to outperform the IC engine? No idea how good, bad or indifferent Turnigy Propdrive motors are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 One thing to note is that 4Max and others have the shaft coming out the end with wires while Turnigy often have the shaft out the other end. Result is they need different mounting and 4 Max need the special adaptor they supply and some people cut the shaft off to avoid it projecting into the Lipo area. I prefer the Turnigy type myself. Edited By kc on 10/01/2021 13:01:12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Matt, I've found the ecalc figures pretty good against actual measurements, probably the biggest difference is the condition of the drive battery, one with a higher internal resistance will give poorer performance and if you have a battery which is better than that assumed by program will give more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Carlton Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 I went for the following setup for model No.2; Overlander Tornado Thumper 3536/08 Overlander 50A XP2 ESC Overlander 3S 2200 Lipo APC E 11X5.5 Prop Surprised by the figures. 320W @ 28A Model weighs 44oz AUW so 116W/lb which should be more than ample. Edited By Matt Carlton on 28/01/2021 16:46:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I only hope you put spruce spars in the free plan Amelia wing. Seen one of them wing fold in gentle flying banking to the right. It had not many flights and gentle flying. Wing failed just beyond fuselage/ wing root on left wing. Twas totalled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Posted by Rich Griff on 28/01/2021 17:10:44: I only hope you put spruce spars in the free plan Amelia wing. Seen one of them wing fold in gentle flying banking to the right. It had not many flights and gentle flying. Wing failed just beyond fuselage/ wing root on left wing. Twas totalled. Indeed, and you told Matt exactly the same thing on the 16th December last year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Carlton Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 The spars are balsa but have 5mm x 1mm carbon caps. There's also a solid ply joiner through the middle between the spars. That said, it's not always the fault of the design if the build wasn't great. Only takes a bit of a dry joint or a nick with a knife to weaken a structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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