The Future of IC Engines

[Tony H]

1 hour ago, David Davis said:

Knowing their sort, he'll probably convert it to electric!

 

PS. I have an ASP 30 FS and an SC 32 two-stroke. They both run well.

 

 

 

I agree I have had very little problems with SC, ASP, AP and to some degree MDS too. Although most of my engines are OS, Saito and (OS built) Irvine these days.

 

However for some reason my early 90s SC & MDS didn't run as well. Maybe they got better over time or it was my lack of experience at the time.

 

I forgot to mention Thunder Tiger on my engines list you can't buy anymore. "Just Engines" must be pooping themselves!

Edited October 9, 2021 by Tony H

[Engine Doctor]

40 minutes ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

While I don’t disagree with the sentiments or conclusion, where were you buying your beer in 1970?  I recall my early (underage) visits to various pubs in 1971 in the supposedly expensive Southeast where bitter was 12p a pint!

Early 1970's Watney Red cost 37p a pint in sw London and Shep Neams bitter cost 17 p a pint down in Kent . But wages were very low at well under £100 per month . So its all relative.

As said our real challenge is getting youngsters into the hobby.

[Nigel R]

Long live glow. Wouldn't be without it. That said I could probably live with petrol if it came to it. 

 

glow fuel isn't expensive, that's a myth. Mail order is easy, so it being difficult to obtain is another myth. 

 

Electric has had many years being subsidised by escaping import tax and the post office delivering fast Eastern imported things for free. Not looking so cheap any more though.  

 

Noise is the main thing. Keep them quiet and stay flying. 

 

All my opinions obviously. 

[kevin b]

1 hour ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

While I don’t disagree with the sentiments or conclusion, where were you buying your beer in 1970?  I recall my early (underage) visits to various pubs in 1971 in the supposedly expensive Southeast where bitter was 12p a pint!

 

I was talking "proper" Northern beer. ?

 

At the time Sam Smiths mild was 9p a pint. Bitter was 11p.

I got my figures off of of t'internet.

[Cuban8]

12 hours ago, kevin b said:

Just did some research.

1960    Fish & chips  8p.      Pint of beer      8p.      Gallon of straight glow fuel    £2.00 (only available in pint cans).

1970       "         "       25p.       "           "        15p.         "               "                 "         £1.00.

2021       "         "      £7.00.      "          "     £3.80.         "               "                 "         £13.10.

 

Still think glow fuel is "expensive" ?

 

kevin b         Rose tinted dept.

A single fish and chips will cost you £8.75 at my local chippy - hardly a cheap meal for a family now. What is often forgotten is that many of us have extra burdons on our incomes that simply weren't there even a few decades ago. Mobile Phone contracts, TV & internet subscriptions, Amazon & Ebay, TV home shopping and not forgetting Credit Cards. The crazy gambling sites that suck people in all from the comfort of their sofas. This can add up to several hundred pounds per month and IMHO does put a strain on many incomes.

IFAIR, the only similar regular out goings back in the day might have been a few pennies a week for  insurance to bury yourself and another few coppers for the never-never........ "five bob a week and let 'em have it out on the knocker"

Fewer people had cars so no car insurance, Road Tax, AA or fuel and servicing costs etc - that of course changed as the 60s progressed.

Our hobby today is cheaper than back in the day, but that is often negated by the expectation of buying more and diverse stuff on a regular basis driven by the web and other media. Many of us  usually stuck with only a couple of models and often switched radio gear between them in times past and no ARTF to tempt you.

Obvious, but difficult to compare meaningfully then and now as times were so very different.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Cuban8

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

10 hours ago, David Davis said:

Knowing their sort, he'll probably convert it to electric!

 

PS. I have an ASP 30 FS and an SC 32 two-stroke. They both run well.

 

 

One of the few,,, I sold some of these crappy engines, the MDS was one of the worse, and every Sunday morning running the engines sold to customers regulating them and teaching them to fly, ok, 2/3 out of 10 of these engines would run whereas the others, OS, T-Tiger, Saito, Ops, Hp, Super Tigre never gave me any problems,,,

Edited October 9, 2021 by David Ashby - Moderator
Removed poor language.

[Don Fry]

Near £9 for fish and chips. That is overcooked fish, in disgusting greasy batter, soggy chips, and all left for a while to mature. That is before you shell out on the indigestion tablets, or if hunting young ladies, mouthwash to be presentable ( throw you minds back lads, there was a time).
That money gets a couple of nice big turbot fillets. 
or cook some cod, for two, make your own mushy peas,  and buy a gallon of glow fuel on the savings. Or try ling, in chip shop type batters, won’t notice the difference, and you are not far off 10 % nitromethane.

You can’t complain a hobby costs, if you can afford fish and chips. 
 

[GrumpyGnome]

Having spent years being all-electric, I am slowly acquiring ic powered planes - which is what I had before electric was practical. And seem to have acquired half a dozen engines, petrol and glow.  The main driver has been moving house, allowing me to join a very rural club with no flying restrictions.  

 

Can only remember 1 poor engine - an MDS. I still have an SC70FS, which is 20 odd years old and runs like a sewing machine, and is ultra-reliable.   

 

In the three years I have been at my new club, there have been around a half dozen members flying ic, who used to be exclusively electric. The majority use petrol engines - cheaper to run, less messy than glow, ans more availability seem to be the reasons.  Majority of petrol engines bought new, majority of glow second hand.... (Half a dozen is a significant proportion of our membership).

 

Re age, we've actually acquired a few younger members, including a teenager, who flies electric and petrol-powered; the requirement for his father to bring him restricts his flying time though.  Having said that, most of our members are retired. 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Hi GrumpyGnome,

 Have you any magic solutions to noisy ear splitting petrol engines other than canister exhausts,,?

 

 

Ps, Can the moderator pm me with my original text if moderated so I can see where I am going wrong ?, I did leave school at 15 and lived here in France for the last 45+ years,,,

[GrumpyGnome]

Afraid not Paul. All but one of the engines I have seen/heard is noisier than its glow equivalent. The quieter one has a long 'pipe' that reportedly cost as much as the engine did - impractical for a scale model!.

 

We are very lucky in that the nearest house (apart from the landlord/farmers) is about 1.5 km away from us and we're a very small club.    

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

I have a canister on one of my Dle Ra's which does break the ear splitting noise, and another Dle 20 Ra where I have put a couple of boat silencers on it, it sounds more like an old 10cc methanol in the air but does look ugly.

[GrumpyGnome]

Not too bad - could form a dummy ancillary fuel tank around that..... ?

Edited October 10, 2021 by GrumpyGnome

[Engine Doctor]

47 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

I have a canister on one of my Dle Ra's which does break the ear splitting noise, and another Dle 20 Ra where I have put a couple of boat silencers on it, it sounds more like an old 10cc methanol in the air but does look ugly.

I used two of those on my CRRC 45cc petrol . They  take the sting out of the exhaust note and do look ugly as you say , Not light either  . I bought mine from China Via Ebay for £7 for the two . I think they now cost over £12 each !   

Dummy fuel tank is a good idea/ disguise.

[Sam Longley]

On 08/10/2021 at 22:26, kevin b said:

Just did some research.

1960    Fish & chips  8p.      Pint of beer      8p.      Gallon of straight glow fuel    £2.00 (only available in pint cans).

1970       "         "       25p.       "           "        15p.         "               "                 "         £1.00.

2021       "         "      £7.00.      "          "     £3.80.         "               "                 "         £13.10.

 

Still think glow fuel is "expensive" ?

 

Where are you buying glow fuel at £ 13-10?

I have to pay £28-00 for 5 litres (5%)at the local model shop

 

[Cuban8]

45 minutes ago, Sam Longley said:

 

Where are you buying glow fuel at £ 13-10?

I have to pay £28-00 for 5 litres (5%)at the local model shop

 

Typo on my part - £16 for castor straight according to a couple of websites. £28 for a gallon sounds pricey, my local model shop sells a gallon of Model Technics 5% for £23. Last fuel I bought was a couple of gallons of Laser mix for IIRC a tad under £50 but by next day courier delivery from a midlands model shop- so effectively about a fiver for each gallon to be couriered which I don't consider to be unreasonable.

On 'having' to buy at what sounds to be an inflated price from your local model shop......is it one of the expensive brands with super duper oil or just the bog standard Model Technics?

Edited October 22, 2021 by Cuban8

[John Stainforth]

2 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

Typo on my part - £16 for castor straight according to a couple of websites. £28 for a gallon sounds pricey, my local model shop sells a gallon of Model Technics 5% for £23. Last fuel I bought was a couple of gallons of Laser mix for IIRC a tad under £50 but by next day courier delivery from a midlands model shop- so effectively about a fiver for each gallon to be couriered which I don't consider to be unreasonable.

On 'having' to buy at what sounds to be an inflated price from your local model shop......is it one of the expensive brands with super duper oil or just the bog standard Model Technics?

I'm a big fan of Optifuel. I bought a couple of gallons of Optimix 12 Sport fuel a few weeks ago for 19.58 pounds per gallon from Nexus modelling supplies, who provide an excellent rapid delivery service. Actually, the volume is nominally 5 litres, which is more than a UK gallon (= 4.5 litres), and it's a very generous 5 litres at that. (I measure the volumes and weights of the glow fuels I buy, to check the nitromethane content. Optimix contains what it says.)

Edited October 22, 2021 by John Stainforth

[kevin b]

3 hours ago, Sam Longley said:

 

Where are you buying glow fuel at £ 13-10?

I have to pay £28-00 for 5 litres (5%)at the local model shop

 

I was talking about "straight" fuel. I don't think nitro was included in 1960.

In case anyone is interested.

 

Leeds model shop.

 

Being from Yorkshire I don't buy engines that are fussy about their fuel.  ?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

I'm from Yorkshire never met/owned and engine that's fussy about fuel, users are another matter.

[Jonathan M]

Call each gallon £30 delivered, gives me 4.5hrs of flying, equates to about £1.50 per 13min flight, or £5-8 per session depending on how long I'm at the patch... and how long I can keep concentrating!

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

1 hour ago, kevin b said:

I was talking about "straight" fuel. I don't think nitro was included in 1960.

In case anyone is interested.

 

Leeds model shop.

 

Being from Yorkshire I don't buy engines that are fussy about their fuel.  ?

That’s plain methanol so you’d need to add oil but Southern Modelcraft’s ready to use straight fuel with synthetic oil is £14 a gallon. Their 10% nitromethane mix is only £18 so you have to ask why some fuels are so expensive. 

[Jonathan M]

Why are some fuels so expensive?

[Don Fry]

Why does my wife quote the price of shoes as single units. Or need another handbag from Italy. Some things are too complicated.

[Andrew Calcutt]

I use ic and electric,depending on the model,how I feel,and if I go in the van or car.Love all of it,we are all flyers at heart.

[Nigel R]

MSL have 5% model technics for £20. The basic stuff, with 15% ML70 in. 

 

Not found a sport engine that needs much different or fancier. 

[Cuban8]

18 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

That’s plain methanol so you’d need to add oil but Southern Modelcraft’s ready to use straight fuel with synthetic oil is £14 a gallon. Their 10% nitromethane mix is only £18 so you have to ask why some fuels are so expensive. 

I used Southern Modecraft's excellent fuels for years and bought in bulk from them at the shows. I rarely go to model shows now to buy direct and as SM flatly refuse to courier their product for some strange reason, I use Model Technics. I don't find it expensive, my smaller 60 and 90 fourstrokes only sip the stuff,  but my 120 four strokes do get through quite a bit on a busy day. TBH, I spend much more on diesel getting to and from the field than the cost of glow fuel for the day.