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The Future of IC Engines


Tony H
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24 minutes ago, Cuban8 said:

SM flatly refuse to courier their product for some strange reason

Just for info - When I asked David  that question it was because he didn't want a continuous stream of courier vans pulling up annoying their neighbors, which I can understand. Great fuel and I get my annual supply from them at Elvington. 

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On 08/10/2021 at 19:05, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

Things have without doubt gone up, same applies to lecky though, price of lipos is very restrictive to my pocket when the cell count needed goes up.

I.C still has a place for me, without it and no slope within easy reach, I would go back to Fishing.

Way of the World today. Still cheaper than when I started in 1975.  shocked at the £ 16 for an OS F plug though. Maybe petrol is next. But not giving up IC. You may as well ask if I'm giving up breathing.

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3 hours ago, Ace said:

Just for info - When I asked David  that question it was because he didn't want a continuous stream of courier vans pulling up annoying their neighbors, which I can understand. Great fuel and I get my annual supply from them at Elvington. 

Used their fuel for years, buy at Cosford or elsewhere. One of the nicest blokes to deal with. And he let me fly his full size as we!!.

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5 hours ago, Ace said:

Just for info - When I asked David  that question it was because he didn't want a continuous stream of courier vans pulling up annoying their neighbors, which I can understand. Great fuel and I get my annual supply from them at Elvington. 

Oh well it is what it is and they can run their business as they see fit, but it's hardly an insurmountable 'problem' that many other mail order businesses must deal with perfectly well. A pity,  but as they've been operating that way since the year dot, I doubt if they'll change now. 

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About 25 years ago as an experiment I ran a yellow slec tank of pump petrol with 2t oil at about 15:1 Thu a magnum gp40 using a glow plug.

 

From memory there where no issues but it did not like idle without the glow plug, Enya no.3, being powered...

 

It was a brief experiment just to see if it would work.

 

I could not afford to "bench destroy" an engine in those days, but with eBay and relatively low prices, perhaps it

may be affordable today...

 

I have seen an advert for an American engine I think it was, new manufacturer, using 2t petrol and glow plug...

 

Will try to find advert again and post info....

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I run mostly glow four strokes including OS and SC. I have found that they don't like old fuel that has been lying around the garage too long. Once set up on good quality fuel, I use Model Technics, they run well all season apart from a minor needle tweak. If I was to go to petrol it would have to be a four stroke conversion. Petrol two strokes with the stock silencer are far too noisy. I also fly a couple of electric  powered gliders so I have a foot in both camps, both systems  have their pros and cons.  I don't think we will see the demise of IC engines for a while. Too many people still like to tinker with and the sound of them.

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I also fly mainly IC and do prefer them to electric. I’m building IC models at the moment, so for me 

there needs to be future for our smelly engines.

My electric is also 3s 2200 size, which is fine when someone is there to hand launch the models.

if I’m on my own, then I take my IC as it’s far easier. I admit I no longer buy contest 10 fuel, as that has

hit top dollar to buy.
over lockdown most items have become difficult to obtain, along with some silly prices being asked.

One comment I read was that someone said they would go back to fishing, well my other love 

is fishing and believe me, that hobby is in exactly the same state.

Bait has gone up, with a shortage or rods, reels and all tackle. Suppliers used to have a vast choice of items

to pick from, but not today. You buy what they have.
Again we hope this is just a short term blip because of COVID, but only time will tell.

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I flew today and took my acrowot XL. As many of you will already know it is fitted with an OS Pegasus FF240 flat 4 running on the model technics laser 5 fuel. 

 

I run it on a 19x8 menz prop at around 7000-7200rpm flat out and it is completely unsilenced with only short brass extensions on the factory pipes and yet it was completely drowned out by a club mate's dle20 with a half decent after market pitts exhaust. 

 

I also flew my laser 240v powered La7 using a graupner Gsonic 18x10 and this too was almost silent compared to the DLE. 

 

There was also a conversation being had about sound vs operating cost and the use of 50cc class engines in some warbird projects within the club. One comment made was about the fuel consumption of a 50cc glow engine and i asked the chap how much fuel he thought a 50cc 4 stroke glow would use in a 10 minute flight. His answer of 750cc was nearly double the use of the same engine in one of my own models and he was a little surprised. 

 

The glow vs petrol argument has been done to death, but generally glow engines are quieter or at the very least are not as irritating, especially in 4 stroke form. Fuel cost is a factor, and certainly contest 10 is both expensive and messy, but there are alternatives. Methanol is only about 8 quid a gallon and a splash of oil turns it into glow fuel for probably about 10 quid a gallon? With current petrol prices its about £2 more than the same in petrol. Yes you use more, but glow engines are cheaper. And i know retail glow fuel is around £20 for the laser 5 i always recommend, but as always i drive 40 minutes each way to my field so i spend more in petrol getting there than i do in glow fuel once i arrive. 

 

 

6 of one, half dozen of the other. 

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Frank, our 180 petrol has a sharper note than the glow at full power but i dont think its nosier as such. Its also very soft on the exhaust at lower power settings, more so than the glow. Also the petrol uses a different cam timing so this could be the cause of the change. You right though in that petrol is not inherently noisy its just that many petrol engines come with very poor mufflers as stock but glow engines tend to be better after years of development in this regard. 

 

John, i was trying to nip the petrol vs glo argument in the bud rather than start one as any comparison between the two fuels usually ends up in the same old argument? 

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16 hours ago, Rich Griff said:

About 25 years ago as an experiment I ran a yellow slec tank of pump petrol with 2t oil at about 15:1 Thu a magnum gp40 using a glow plug.

 

From memory there where no issues but it did not like idle without the glow plug, Enya no.3, being powered...

 

It was a brief experiment just to see if it would work.

 

I could not afford to "bench destroy" an engine in those days, but with eBay and relatively low prices, perhaps it

may be affordable today...

 

I have seen an advert for an American engine I think it was, new manufacturer, using 2t petrol and glow plug...

 

Will try to find advert again and post info....

Have a look at these video's, OS G5 petrol glow plug,,,https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2388487-OS-G5-GAS-Glow-Plug

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On 23/10/2021 at 21:48, Jon - Laser Engines said:

Frank, our 180 petrol has a sharper note than the glow at full power but i dont think its nosier as such. Its also very soft on the exhaust at lower power settings, more so than the glow. Also the petrol uses a different cam timing so this could be the cause of the change. You right though in that petrol is not inherently noisy its just that many petrol engines come with very poor mufflers as stock but glow engines tend to be better after years of development in this regard. 

 

John, i was trying to nip the petrol vs glo argument in the bud rather than start one as any comparison between the two fuels usually ends up in the same old argument? 

The current problem with petrol engine silencers is the physical size (and weight) of an efficient one.

I have a petrol generator which is extremely quiet, but the silencer is bigger, and heavier than the engine.

Have you ever noticed how noisy full size petrol engine powered aircraft are ?

A decent silencer would reduce the power output enormously.

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And cost Kevin. 

 

If you buy a cheap engine you can be looking at spending the same again on an exhaust! 

 

Full size aircraft are not always noisy and a great deal of the noise, like with our own engines, is the prop. 

 

In terms of noise from the engine cars (not moving) are probably a better reference as you can run the engine up without any other noises getting in the way. Some cars are whisper quiet, others not. 

 

A exhaust designed well can also increase power at the same time as reducing noise, but you are into exhaust tuning by that point and you wont get that from a pitts exhaust slapped on a dle

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