GrumpyGnome Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Does your club insist/recommend a fire extinguisher for ic planes? Glow and petrol? TIA GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 We are silent flight only but the clubhouse has extinguishers and I carry a lithium battery fire extinguisher just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan p Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 One in the club house. (But fitting one in the model, would end up it being a tad heavy?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Lithium battery fire extinguisher ?? Please elaborate please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 47 minutes ago, Rich Griff said: Lithium battery fire extinguisher ?? Please elaborate please... Lithex fire extinguisher available from safe fire direct. Specifically designed to extinguish lithium battery fires. Having seen a lipo fire I thought it worthwhile to have one at home and to carry it in the car when transporting batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Ok, lipo, liion, life and any other li battery, lithium, are new to me. I knew I read it somewhere, yes 4nax safety sheets that come with the lipo batteries I got, in red.... Do and don't when using lithium polymers cells ( lipo )... Never use Water to try and extinguish a lipo fire, it acts like petrol etc. etc. etc.... Read the spec sheets for the lithex extinguisher please... Any feedback......at all ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Rich Griff said: ...Read the spec sheets for the lithex extinguisher please... Any feedback......at all ? Let's hope not, that would mean he had needed to use it.... ? Comparison video - yes it from a seller for the extinguishers, but having taken a look at the data sheet and with my chemistry background I can see no reason these won't be effective against an oxygen generating fire source such as our lithium packs. Edited November 8, 2021 by MattyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Carbon dioxide unit, cooling the fire to below temperature it can burn? Not magic that’s for sure. Water never acts like petrol. But if the fire is hot enough to, the steam generated, carries the fire with it. The Royal Navy uses water to tackle petrol fires. They use a water screen, and shoot the dousing jet of water through the screen. It is frightening to to be behind the water screen, a ball of fire explodes a foot in front of your face, and it’s hot on the skin. As in hot, not warm. And then it cools and goes out. All fires go out if cooled enough. Anybody read the active ingredient list on the extinguisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Walsh Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, Don Fry said: Carbon dioxide unit, cooling the fire to below temperature it can burn? Not magic that’s for sure. Water never acts like petrol. But if the fire is hot enough to, the steam generated, carries the fire with it. The Royal Navy uses water to tackle petrol fires. They use a water screen, and shoot the dousing jet of water through the screen. It is frightening to to be behind the water screen, a ball of fire explodes a foot in front of your face, and it’s hot on the skin. As in hot, not warm. And then it cools and goes out. All fires go out if cooled enough. Anybody read the active ingredient list on the extinguisher. The extinguisher contains a suspension of very finely divided vermiculite. When used, the platelets of vermiculite overlap in layers forming an air tight seal extinguishing the fire. In some exceptional circumstances, water can act as "petrol", never try extinguishing an alkali metal fire with water the reaction produces hydrogen and a big bang! Sodium and potassium will also burn in a CO2 atmosphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 There shouldn't be much metallic lithium in a lipo so I'd presume that the Lithium-specific extinguisher is targeted at primary lithium cells, the ones which have caused significant fires in cargo aircraft and facilities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Sorry, yes, alkali metal, put a bit of water on, whoosh. Put a ton on, it produces a weak alkali solution, too cool to whoosh. Water does not burn. Ever. It’s burnt hydrogen, bottom of the energy pile, happy, can’t descend further, And from distant memory, Sodium will burn in CO2. But at the thick end of a 1000°C. Potassium will be hotter, less reactive. My braising torch is not that hot. Now I admit to being a cynic. Vermiculite, grow bag component, forming an airtight seal, in an expanding gas?, stuctural strength?. A few numbers might be welcome? How it does it? Rather than marketing speak. And I thought that the problem with lithium battery fires, is they produce the oxygen to keep the fire going. So why seek to form a layer from oxygen when the problem is below the layer. Vermiculite might be good in a fire, but floating platelets, sealing together, like a balloon creating itself in the flames, needs some explaining. put a fire out, cool it, or starve it of fuel. Bit like a IC motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted November 10, 2021 Author Share Posted November 10, 2021 Interesting info, but wandered a little off topic! I'm amending our clubs safety sheet which currently advises a fire extinguisher in the pits for petrol engines. I just wondered if this is common in other clubs, universal, or occasional..... and if it's also recommended for glow engines. TIA. GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Only for turbines at my clubs, in the pits that is. The club has the extinguishers but generally speaking the 'jet boys' have their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Although tricky to get a halon extinguishers work well on most things but not sure about lipo fires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Interesting.... Anyway when I looked at the lipo fire extinguisher on the fire safe site, I emailed them for advise on an extinguisher for a lipo fire. The reply I just got was extremely non committal and suggested nothing, for a lipo fire, other than a risk assessment. I replied rewording the question, lipo, lithium polymer rechargable battery fire on open ground bare earth. Perhaps they will suggest/recommend an extinguisher ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 The plot thickens... Just had a very quick reply from the above question, a suitable fire extinguisher for a lipo fire, a lithium polymer rechargable battery fire on open ground bare earth. The reply was they do not recommend what type of extinguisher ( for any type of fire ? ) to use, it's all down to a risk assessment ? I will reread the text they have on Thier site for lithium ion batteries, just in case I read it wrong. Anyone else read that text ? Is a lithium ion battery the same as a lipo, a lithium polymer rechargeable battery ? 4max say do not use water on a lipo fire... An extinguisher would be a good idea, but the right type being important I would think. My lipo storage methods will need reaccessing and acting on. Feedback......anyone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Having witnessed a couple of LiPo fires - one accidental, one provoked - I would not dream of going near one whilst it was going off. The fire intensity & volume of toxic smoke needs to be seen to be believed. My life is worth more than possessions, I'd stand well back & let it burn out or the professionals deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Agreed. I have not witnessed a lipo fire but have seen a couple of videos... It's what else they set fire to thats the worry, and the appropriate first extinguisher used for that, NOT WATER.... I am thinking hard about outside storage but need to take waterproofing and ambiant temperature into account. I don't want the shed or house burning down, or sleepless nights worrying about lipo's. I am only going into electric propulsion in a very limited way me thinks. Any comments on the fire safe text about lithium batteries, anyone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I store outside in a BatSafe &/or fireproof document case within a garden storage box. The storage temperature is not an issue in the UK. Charging is in a BatSafe after returning to room temperature. I've a couple of 2kg powder fire extinguishers for residual fires if I felt safe to tackle them. And with that I sleep soundly. https://www.bat-safe.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Thanks John. The bat safe website doesn't seem to work properly so I emailed asking for details and if there is a UK dealer. All my old ammo boxes are full of fuel etc but I can rearrange stuff to free one up. Off to town tomorrow for some plaster board and research a plastic waterproof lockable garden storage chest. Getting the bmfa lipo saefty sheets printed A4, much easier to read than this tiny phone screen. The bat safe vidio, the first one, was that a mobile phone on the desk ?, terrifying !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyB Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Rich Griff said: Is a lithium ion battery the same as a lipo, a lithium polymer rechargeable battery ? Lithium ion is the family or class of battery; lithium polymer is a type within the lithium ion class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Rich Griff said: Thanks John. The bat safe website doesn't seem to work properly so I emailed asking for details and if there is a UK dealer. Most decent model shops plus HobbyKing stock them. Just put 'bat-safe' into http://www.rcferret.co.uk (a dedicated RC search engine) or your favourite search site & it will produce loads of results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Griff Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Thanks Matt, thanks John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Walby Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 On topic - club does not allow turbines, no recommendations for IC or electric to have fire extinguishers local to the model. A couple of large water/foam extinguishers in the club house. Off topic As mentioned above and same as your local fire and rescue service in the event of a fire a risk assessment is appropriate at the time of the incident. If the fire puts people at risk then tackle the fire, if it involves property then only tackle it if there is no personal risk. IMHO Foam (coverage, cooling and distance of operation), dry powder or a halon (BCF) would be most suitable lastly CO2, but as I understand its a self prorogating type fire so really you are only dealing with a secondary fire of adjacent materials. I have BCF in the garage and workshop because its the best for a wide range of types of fire and requires very low concentrations to extinguish the fire, but its no longer available due to its ozone depleting properties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 4 hours ago, John Lee said: I store outside in a BatSafe &/or fireproof document case within a garden storage box. The storage temperature is not an issue in the UK. Charging is in a BatSafe after returning to room temperature. I've a couple of 2kg powder fire extinguishers for residual fires if I felt safe to tackle them. And with that I sleep soundly. https://www.bat-safe.com Yep - now that I have started sometimes charging at home rather than just at the field a pair of Bat Safes does it for me. Lipo storage is in Sentry Firesafes for the rarely used packs and in the proper, original Lipo Sacks inside a steel cabinet for the packs in regular use. Wireless linked fire alarms, ABC dry powder fire extinguishers on the opposite wall and I was considering adding an automatic heat activated fore extinguisher in the steel cabinet. I think we had this discussion a few weeks ago, but just in case here's a picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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