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Fire extinguishers


GrumpyGnome
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Hi early bird...

 

I'm just a bit confused really...

 

I should have paid much more attention in chemistry class in school...

 

I just want an extinguisher for a possible lipo fire, one that will not make a bad situation much worse.

 

Emax say do not use water on a lipo fire, message received and digested, even if a natural reaction would be to use water.

 

Yes I know, best not to allow a fire in the first place, and take very good precautions to contain a possible lipo fire, but you know what "sods" and "murphies" laws state.

 

The company mentioned gave a very understandable reply to my simple question, but the scenario was laid out quite clearly....what can I say....

 

On their site there is a thread/explanation/advice " What's the difference between lithium and lithium ion batteries"

 

Please read that and come back with your thoughts, anyone....

 

If the extinguisher mentioned is the one to have, I will buy one.

 

I will not buy one until my confusion has been remedied.

 

Still waiting for feedback from batsafe, but will be buying lipo bags from 4max on Monday and a suitable garden storage box and plaster board.

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There is a thread on here about a lipo fire in France, probably more as well.

 

Look on you tube, there will be some on there...

 

Did you read the text on the extinguisher website...

 

The 4 max lipo safety sheets will give you some clues of how to set a lipo ablase, are you gunna do an experiment for us ?

 

If you are, please please please be extremely cautious and carefully, and do it on waste ground.

 

I recommend you don't even try to set a lipo ablaze.

 

I good way may be to damage a lipo sufficiently by crashing a sacrificial model perhaps.

 

Again, don't do that.

 

Read the mentioned text on the extinguisher website then come back with your thoughts.

 

The Titanic sunk.

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20 hours ago, Jason Channing said:

For info , dont ever mix BCF and Lipo's together as the resultant chemical mix forms Lithium carbonate in very high doses.

Why, source of this information? Can’t see why it happens, or why worry to much. 
 

And this whole thread is confusing. Starting to trawl, and the FAA no less seem to like water extinguishers on Li ion battery fires, because the heat removing qualities of water is so superior to other materials in preventing thermal runaway, and cooling to put out flames. 

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Well you would have hoped the fire extinguisher company would have given better advise about the scenario given.

 

If you have read the text mentioned, produced by them, then you might just see where my confusion is coming from.

 

4 max say do not use water on a lipo battery fire.

 

We are hopefully only talking about a lipo fire.

 

Just a lipo rechargable battery fire.

 

A lithium-polymer rechargeable battery fire.

 

Read the extinguisher company text.....any feedback...over

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1 hour ago, EarlyBird said:

What did the people who had fires do to make the lipo burst into flames and do you intend doing the same?

 

I know four people personally who have had lipo fires. All of them whilst charging, one with the lipo in the model, which is a big no-no. One got away with nothing more than the lipo being destroyed and a scorched kitchen counter top, one lost several lipos, one lost the model and one lost his entire garage/workhop, all of his modelling gear and was lucky not to lose his house. The fire one in the model is relevant here as the lipos continued to re-ignite multiple times after being put out temporarily with at least two fire extinguishers and the model was destroyed.

As for the cause of lipo fires, the definitive source for me, in terms of anecdotal evidence is the long running lipo fire thread on RCG -far and away the largest number of reports have been fires whilst charging-in the early days before balance charging and auto-cell detect that was most often due to setting the wrong cell number. My reading of the thread over the years leads me to believe that is much less common and charging damaged and puffed abused packs is probably the most common cause now.

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21 hours ago, Jason Channing said:

For info , dont ever mix BCF and Lipo's together as the resultant chemical mix forms Lithium carbonate in very high doses.

 

1 hour ago, Don Fry said:

Why, source of this information? Can’t see why it happens, or why worry to much. 

I suppose (tongue in cheek) that the lithium carbonate would help you feel better about the disastrous consequences. 

  • Haha 2
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Thanks for that leccy flier...

 

Please read the extinguisher website text mentioned a few posts ago, and reply with any comments please.

 

As said 4max say do not use water on a lipo fire. The same safety sheets says that by using the lipo batteries supplied by them, you are agreeing to those conditions.

 

The same safety sheet says if you don't agree with the conditions, return the batteries unused.

 

As far as I am concerned, the safety sheet supplied by 4max is the "horse's mouth". I will fully abide by the sheets conditions. They are there for my safety, a good customer service thing.

 

Please comment on the fire extinguisher company text....

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Rich, is this the company that did the video. The company who you contacted, and won’t recommend their product in writing?
Take them at their word. Steer clear.

Now some serious advice. Many moons ago, I did a Hazchem course for my ex employer, ICI.

I was a young research chemist, short of money, aero modeling and women, and it was a nice earner, callouts to chemical spills, fires and stuff. 
On the course, on callouts, were fire service people, and got to know them, and two are lifetime friends.

They know fires. Stands to reason. Their rules are;

1. you breath and walk when you go to a fire, you breath and walk when you leave the fire,

2. if there is risk to life, you may take calculated risk to save that life,

3. if no risk to life, you can fight the fire, at no known risk to yourself. Refer to rule one.

 

LiPo fire, take steps, fast ones, away from the fire. Good advice has been given, store in a place you don’t care about, and make a risk assessment that it’s won’t spread to what you do care about. If you have ever been to a fire where someone has died, that has the same effect on caution as really screwing up with a propellor.

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2 hours ago, Martin Harris - Moderator said:

 

I suppose (tongue in cheek) that the lithium carbonate would help you feel better about the disastrous consequences. 

theirs many ways of creating Lithium Carbonate, Co2 works as well if you can get it super hot and directly onto the plates. 

Edited by Jason Channing
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I only asked the original question because I am reviewing our club's 'safety sheet', which currently says you should have a fire extinguisher on hand if you use a petrol engine.  No mention of glow fuel, jet fuel, or LiPos.

 

I have seen jet fires; I have seen LiPo fires (both when charging and when crashing_); I have never seen a fire with a glow or petrol powered plane......   

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I can't post a link ( don't know how to other than writing the firm's address, but if you Google the name it will show you details and a website button ) or copy and paste, it's an internet mobile phone.

 

The text that explains the non rechargable and chargeable lithium batteries seems to offer confusing ( to me ) advise bearing in mind 4max say do not use water on a lipo, lithium-polymer rechargeable battery, hence the "confusion" I have.

 

The rcgroup has nine pages relating to a chap who went on holiday, to return to a badly damaged house, fire and smoke damage. The fire started in the room used to charge lipo batteries.

 

I wonder what house insurance firms think about this these days ?

 

Anyway, more reading to do.

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I have never seen or heard of model related fires involving glow, diesel or petrol fuels.

 

I seem to remember incidents of some nicads exploding.

 

Some clarity, so as to avoid confusion, would be good, as regarding lipo, lithium-polymer rechargeable batteries, and a "correct" fire extinguisher to have at hand and use if needed.

 

Lipo bags, porcelain pots, plaster board lined segregated steel box, garden storage box and smoke alarm to think about

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2 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

Lipo bags, porcelain pots, plaster board lined segregated steel box, garden storage box and smoke alarm to think about

How do you sleep at night?

1 minute ago, Rich Griff said:

Did they say what caused the fire ?

 

Go have a read...

I take it that it's just nine pages of speculation then.

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