Quadcopter idiot

[andyh]

12 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

I did start manifesting at the very beginning, but the Police ( under Macrons orders ) got very violent even when they were peacefully walking through some towns

I gave up very quickly, anyway the French government don't act on what the 'people' think or do, 1789 changed the 'titles', but not the system,,,,?

 

I'm sure a keen modeller should have no trouble knocking up a guillotine in their shed.  ?

[Zflyer]

Don hows the dog.

OJ

[Don Fry]

40 minutes ago, Zflyer said:

Don hows the dog.

OJ

He escaped upstairs with a duck leg, leaving his beloved mistress stunned on the floor. She looks like a panda today, I’m printing a not guilty badge to wear, and the dog is looking as guilty as expected after eating the braised leg of an elderly Barbary duck.

[MattyB]

16 hours ago, EarlyBird said:

So it's a fact not just an opinion? 

Why all the pessimism?

 

It's not pessimism, just pragmatic realism. In the last 7 or 8 years I've read the RIGA whitepaper, the original and various iterations of the EASA proposals, multiple government drone whitepapers, watched the House of Commons Science and Technology Commitee hearings, watched the CAA sessions put on by the BMFA, and kept track of legislation going on across Europe and in the US, particularly with respect to Remote ID. If you've done that it's hard to come to any other conclusion other than the UK governement (and others around the world) are going to try and regulate further in the medium - case in point, the Sec of State for Transport stated as recently as Dec 2020 that remote ID (electronic conspicuity, or the active broadcast of unique IDs by UAS during flight) should be urgently implemented:

 

"...Modernised airspace is also essential to opening up airspace for all users, and an important initiative being led by the CAA is an airspace classification review and reform project to look at the release of controlled airspace. It is vital that all airspace users can access airspace where it is safe to do so. As part of this, I consider the timely and effective deployment of Electronic Conspicuity to be a priority for delivering safety."

Without Covid they'd have gone further down this route by now, but the fact this has been delayed doesn't mean it won't come. The Amazons and DHLs of this world haven't disappeared, if they think money can be made they will continue to lobby governements to put the legal frameworks in place.

 

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Reminds me of the film.

The Thighs The Limit. (Or not)

[David Davis 2]

15 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Oh come on what else can I do but moan,,,,

 

It's winter and cold, and looking back at my life ( sad so and so ), flying free on the Newcastle town moor, sharing a field in the middle of the town with

 people walking their dogs, some playing golf and cows,,,

 

Then over to France where I tasted real liberty,,, free parking no speed radars etc etc, I have ben flying all around the south of France with only a FFAM licence, ( French model federation )slop soaring, public demonstrations, French Helicopter championships, Pylon racing etc, but now there are so many laws, there are no public model meetings, only inter-club ones no Paella, no chatting to the public, and of course no buddy box flying with the youngsters,   the Covid pass was the last straw,,,,,

 

Still one good thing I found this forum to pass my time and yes it is a good one with plenty of exchanges,,

 

Ps yes thanks MHM reminiscing at the moment,,,

 

La Coupe Des Barons is an event which the general public may observe from a safe distance. https://saffiotipatrick.wixsite.com/vl38/les-barons

15 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by David Davis 2

[EarlyBird]

@MattyB it's all very depressing.

[MattyB]

16 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

I think that aeromodellers are some of the most optimistic individuals around - hundreds if not thousands of pounds worth of equipment put into the air and the risk of losing the lot if something goes wrong - got to have an optimistic outlook! No, this is not about whinging, complaining and just being plain awkward, but questioning the validity of corralling affiliated model aircraft and drone flyers with an excellent safety record in with a new and publically available technology that unfortunately has given the authorities serious concerns (real or imagined) and resulting in the regs that we have now. Arguing that the regs need to be in place because of an expected army of commercial UAVs criss-crossing the skyways anytime soon is barmy. It's never going to amount to anywhere near a problem with our models/drones that'll need to be looked at for decades to come, if at all- so why the mad rush to legislate now?

 

We may all know that, but that is irrelevent if lobbyists paid by big business interests are spinning the fact theres is a huge economic opportunity "right now" to governments worldwide. The vast majority of politicians know very little about the technology and current limitations, so telling them there is an opportunity to create a large commercial drone industry in their country that will generate jobs and tax £££s hand over fist will always get their attention.

 

16 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

I would like to see members of any  of the recognised model flying or drone flying bodies (e.g. BMFA/BDF or FPVUK etc) competely removed from the CAA system and traceability simply to be based on a flyer's association membership number. Why would my BMFA membership number not be sufficient?

I can see the advantage of being able to trace the owner of a lost model or whatever in the rare event of third party damage where our insurance would come into force and right any wrongs that had occurred to a member of the public.  I view that as a responsible and positive way forward that puts us in a good light. Many flyers have been putting their BMFA number on their models for years, so we've been ahead of the game.

 

Don't shoot the messenger, but Governments and (to a lesser extent) the CAA will argue a number of reasons, chiefly:

• It would add cost and complexity in terms of the systems needed to track and enforce compliance. Example - the Police would need to have access to have kit that could validate the IDs in both formats, and have access to both the CAA and BMFA databases to check if someone was registered or not. 
• The BMFA membership number does not comply with the European standard for UAS IDs, so it wouldn't be usable outside of the UK (this was even an issue for UK pilots who flew in other countries with the original format CAA IDs when they were first issued).
• The BMFA number is not designed for remote ID/electronic conspicuity. Why am I mentioning that again when it isn't a legal requirement? Well because the revised ID format rolled out from 2021 onwards was implemented to support remote ID in the future; it's 19 characters long because that allows them to include the checksums needed to validate any ID as legitimate. The CAA talk obliquely about this in their BMFA broadcast still available on Youtube, though at the time even they didn't seem to fully understand the format or how it was arrived at! Worth a watch; they get onto this the first question, then Dave Phipps talks some more about the format ~35 mins in. Somewhere there is a long and very boring paper on the EASA ID number format and how it has been arrived at, I no longer have the link but it should be Google-able.

 

16 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

My car registration number allows the police and insurance companies to trace my vehicle in the case of a problem, so what's wrong with simply putting your BMFA number on models without the duplication of a long CAA number and the extra expense?  The chances of a model needing to be traced because of something serious happening to it is highly unlikely and I'd be interested to know just how many  times the CAA database has been used so far to trace a lost machine.

 

As above, your car registration is managed directly by a single authority - the DVLA - who hold the entire set of registrations for every vehicle in the UK. Doing it via the BMFA/FPVUK etc. would mean those registrations were spread amongst 4 or 5 additional national associations whcih would make enforcement and compliance activities much harder, and a central system would still be needed for those not registered via an association. This all creates extra expense and complexity for the authorities so will never happen - the BMFA and other national associations fought and lost this battle a long time ago, so sadly it won't change now.

 

 

 

[MattyB]

34 minutes ago, EarlyBird said:

@MattyB it's all very depressing.

 

I agree, but putting our collective heads in the sand and denying anything is happening won't help. The only way to protect out interests in the long term will be for national associations to understand the fine details of what is being proposed and build strategies (with legal support) to fight each governement proposal that negatively impacts us  and erodes existing rights.

 

That means to help them we have to a) keep up our memberships, b) expect fees may need to increase in future to cover legal costs, and c) read and absorb the content that comes out of government regarding future legislation and get involved when asked to by the national associations. Being indignant and stating "commercial drone deliveries will never be viable, roll back all this stuff and lets go back to 1970" is not going to be an effective strategy.

Edited January 25, 2022 by MattyB

[EarlyBird]

10 minutes ago, MattyB said:

I agree, but putting our collective heads in the sand and denying anything is happening won't help.

Oh dear what am I being accused of? 

Sorry but I just can't get excited about the inevitable.

 

[Rich Griff]

And as a collective, flying our aircraft in s safe manner, no wings coming off or batteries flying out, double checking stuff before flying and staying well in range.

 

All basic stuff really covered under an "A" test.

 

You have  a licence to drive the car to the flying field.

 

An A test is a good basic standard to indicate you are a safe flier, on the day of the test at least, just like a car driving test, or mot for that matter.

 

At club level the day safety officer should have the right/obligation to inforce the "rules".

 

A lone flier will be self disciplined, but what about the "rouges/ferrels", who are the problems for us ?

 

How do we or the authorities tackle that problem ?

 

Maybe an identification signal from the plane is the way to go, but there will be ways to side step that...

 

Carrot and stick, very inexpensive caa fees ( free) and kit ( £10 ) and a VERY BIG STICK !

 

A radar system for the whole country to locate, a local system to identify, no id response from the "target", eurofighter scrambled.....

 

 

I am not going to mention the "racing car drone"...

 

Safe flying is no accident. Let's keep it that way...

Edited January 25, 2022 by Rich Griff

[MattyB]

30 minutes ago, EarlyBird said:

Oh dear what am I being accused of? 

Sorry but I just can't get excited about the inevitable.

 

I'm not accusing you of anything. You stated my post seemed pessimistic, all I've done is post some of the various sources which lead me to believe further legislation is a realistic probability. Whether you agree or not (or just find those materials depressing) is your prerogative.

 

PS - The latter part of my post ("Being indignant and stating "commercial drone deliveries will never be viable..." etc) was more in response to Cuban's post further up; I apologise to you and @Cuban8if my tone was a little brusque, that was not my intent.

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by MattyB

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

38 minutes ago, MattyB said:

 

I agree, but putting our collective heads in the sand and denying anything is happening won't help. The only way to protect out interests in the long term will be for national associations to understand the fine details of what is being proposed and build strategies (with legal support) to fight each governement proposal that negatively impacts us  and erodes existing rights.

 

That means to help them we have to a) keep up our memberships, b) expect fees may need to increase in future to cover legal costs, and c) read and absorb the content that comes out of government regarding future legislation and get involved when asked to by the national associations. Being indignant and stating "commercial drone deliveries will never be viable, roll back all this stuff and lets go back to 1970" is not going to be an effective strategy.

 

Agree with A,B,C Matty, comments like bury our heads in the sand I am weary of, I never saw this, never happened, I saw nothing to Imply it happened, we all knew change was coming and many responded to the various request to e mail etc, but the BMFA was our best hope and still is, no heads are buried, just getting on pursuing the hobby.

[Cuban8]

No problem and no apology necessary.? I think that we need to move on from this at this time, while remaining mindful of the ways of the bureaucratic blob.

[EarlyBird]

15 minutes ago, MattyB said:

Whether you agree or not (or just find those materials depressing) is your prerogative.

For me to agree I would have to read what you have read but in my case, unlike you obviously, I will not understand any of it. As I find planking more interesting and rewarding that's what I prefer to do. Speculating on the future for me is a waste of my precious time.

[kc]

Just before Christmas I accidentally tuned in to a TV Selling Channel which had a very convincing demonstration of a drone with camera at a very low price.    The demonstrator said that no licence or skill was needed ( probably his drone was less than 250 grams and he was flying indoors) and although they did mention the drone safe site they implied that drones could be flown without any qualifications or registration.  No mention of weight being the deciding factor.     That's the problem - the people who sell them to just anyone!     Surely it's the sellers of drones who need to be licenced and required to hand out the info on how they should be flown.

 

[ken anderson.]

looks like the wasters are causing problems down the midlands.....large music festival taking place 1 mile from east midlands airport....someone flying drones has caused a fair number of flights to be diverted....kinda makes a mockery of most law abiding flyers trying to do things correctly .... police have said "they could face prosecution if caught"  

 

ken anderson....ne....1....drone dept.

Edited June 12, 2022 by ken anderson.
crepe grammar dept

[Cuban8]

No 'kinda' about it..................

[Geoff S]

Donnington park is literally right across the road from the East Midlands airfield boundary fence.  They really couldn't be closer so any RC flying of any kind would be a threat to full size activity and totally irresponsible.

[Allan Bennett]

Watching the Silverstone grand prix yesterday on TV, several times I saw the shadow of what looked like a regular hobby-type quadcopter on and alongside the track.  Was that another idiot, or an 'official' TV drone?  Whatever, it doesn't sound right with cars going 200mph just below it.

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

1 hour ago, Allan Bennett said:

Watching the Silverstone grand prix yesterday on TV, several times I saw the shadow of what looked like a regular hobby-type quadcopter on and alongside the track.  Was that another idiot, or an 'official' TV drone?  Whatever, it doesn't sound right with cars going 200mph just below it.

I didn't watch the gp, but if the shot was the same from lap to lap it was probably a camera rig called a libra. 

[kc]

F1 has a camera drone running along wires which is presumably completely safe.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

For once I didn't fall asleep watching it, yes there are some cameras on wires around the pits but looking at the pictures their must be some 'proper' drones flying about,,,

[Brian Cooper]

I belive ALL of the high angle shots are taken with cameras travelling on wires nowadays.  

 

The only "flying" cameras are onboard a full size helicopter. 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Drones, maybe not but fun to watch,,,

 

 

https://www.redbull.com/my-en/drone-chased-formula-1-car