build Mini Super Belair Kits

[EarlyBird]

Thanks Jim,

 

I am going to stop reinventing the wheel and go with what clearly works. Just as a check here is my Super 60.

 

  

 

as thumbnails click to expand.

 

The ailerons are 15" x 2" which reduced by 20% gives 12" x 1 5/8" and it just happens that 12" is the width of four bays, neat. Control throws on the 60 are only 1/2" and considering there is a good dihedral (2" maybe) it flies without any problems, I think it is set up as a trainer for a complete novice (which I was when I was given it three years ago).

 

Decision time which is the width will be four bays not sure about the depth though, 2" I know will work anything less may not 1 1/8" is the depth of the TE sheet.?

[Guest]

Cheers EB?

[EarlyBird]

Drawing in the aileron.

 

 

Looks fine to me.

Good news the wood has been delivered, thank you SLEC.

Now cut and drill the ribs as necessary then I can start.

 

[Fun Flyer]

Did you consider including flaps EB?

I downloaded the Mini Super plans back in November with the intention of building the taildragger version with ailerons and flaps however the need to build a new Fournier wing, don't ask, pushed that idea on to the back burner,

[EarlyBird]

1 hour ago, Fun Flyer said:

Did you consider including flaps EB?

I thought they would be a step to far for me but is someone was to lead the way with detailed instructions I could be tempted to build a second wing.

 

[EarlyBird]

Making parts is needed when building from a plan or plan pack. I have all the parts for the wings and can make a start.

 

The LE and TE are pinned to the board. Wingtips , cap strips aileron sheeting all glued in place. The two bottom spars are glued in place.

 

 

While I had my pencil and ruler out I extended the lines of the ribs because I had previously found out that the sheeting covers the lines, rib numbers can also be hidden yes done that ?.

 

Before anyone jumps in the ribs are not glued they are being used to locate the spars in their correct position.

A point of interest is that the 1/16" sheeting for the wing is 18" long and one 36" sheet covers one wing with a little to spare. Now that is lucky considering the price of balsa.

 

Aileron spars to do then modify the ribs.

Edited February 5, 2022 by EarlyBird
poor proof reader

[EarlyBird]

Aileron spars fixed and holes cut for servo wires.

 

 

Ribs glued

 

 

Top spar and shear webs glued

 

 

Aileron spars planed down to the ribs

 

 

Hinge blocks fitted.

 

Next pull up the LE bottom sheet then top sheeting. ?

 

Steve

 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by EarlyBird

[EarlyBird]

LE pulled up using an old aileron as a wedge and weights on the spar to hold the wing flat.

 

 

While waiting for glue to dry I can start the second wing.

 

 

Which will be quicker as I have all the parts made. ?

 

Now all the decisions have been made on the wings I have had a first look at the fuselage. Previously I called the motor mount/fire wall F1 but one the plan it's F2, F1 is the spinner ring ? anyway F2 is not a full height former, another ?, oh no more decisions to come, I was moving F2 so was expecting to have to cut a new one. 

 

First finish the wings. For me this is the first wing with a flat centre section and the plan shows the shear webs to the back of the spars and the dihedral braces on the front of the spars. I swapped them so that I can follow my usual build method that I learned on here. Whom did I learn from?

 

Steve

[Guest]

EB

Had to be Peter Miller

[kc]

Have you considered building the centre section actually onto the outer wing?   This saves the problem of having the centre section not quite match the outer.   Even just a few degrees out can make it not fit accurately  and the wing joiners not line up with the spars.   Of course you don't have to glue the outer at this stage but just unglued will ensure it lines up nicely.

[EarlyBird]

As it happens KC that is what I have learned to do with with normal two piece wings. Originally I thought if the two parts are accurately placed on the plan then they are bound to fit and I found out the error in my logic the hard way. When at work I was on a submerged tube tunnel and that is exactly what they did cast the next section up against the previous and it did fit.

 

What I don't understand is the dihedral braces being under the LE sheeting which implies that the whole wing has to be built and fitted together before the LE is sheeted. Not my way so I changed the design. Both wings will be completed then the centre section and prior to top sheeting the centre section the wings will be fitted so that everything lines up and there are no gaps. Two things I don't like are gaps and filler, I can't have gaps as I don't have any filler. I don't buy filler so I don't have any gaps. Simple logic. ?

 

Yes Jim, a bit too easy that one.

[kc]

That's where the CAD plan differs from the original Boddington AMI plan, and perhaps to the Keil Kraft plan too.  Boddington didnt have any lower sheeting at all except for the TE.   And of course the dihedral braces are only on the underside anyway ( both plans ) so no need to cut non existant sheeting on Boddos version!    Boddington didnt use cap strips as the ribs are slightly higher behind LE to compensate for the LE upper sheeting.  The wing ribs are also cut away to allow for TE sheet top and bottom to be inset.

 

So the CAD wing is very different to Boddingtons plan and CAD version uses more balsa.   Generally I am against using CAD versions of existing plans as they may differ from the original designers plan and may not have been tested.    In this case the CAD plans seem more practical for RC  and presumably other people have already built from this version of the plan and found it works.    I think I prefer the CAD version with lower LE sheet ( full D box) with simple rib shape which needs cap strips although caps are more work the  ribs are easier to produce by hand.  I like the built up formers F4 and F5.    Dowels and wing bolts on CAD plan suit modern modellers except novice pilots.    So I think that the CAD plan from Outerzone is the plan one should recommend for other Mass Builders.

[kc]

I see that the CAD plan has a LE of 3/16 x 1/2 shown under the LE sheeting.   It doesn't show it in 2 pieces as advocated by  Phillip Kent years ago and now used on many plans including Peter Miller's Miss Sizzle etc.   Much easier in two pieces as it's easier to get the LE shaped exactly when it's thinner- one bit goes under the sheeting and a cap goes infront.

[EarlyBird]

KC that makes sense, there being not bottom LE sheet, so installing the dihedral brace was not an issue. Adding the bottom sheet is the cause of my issue and the only way around is to do as I have done, Peter Miller's method, put the shear webs on the inside and the brace on the outside.

 

The 3/16 x 1/2 LE goes in front of the LE sheet, not easy to get a good joint and I agree the two piece LE is better.

 

 

 

[Barry W]

Here are attached a couple of photos on my Mini Super taken today. (I live in Florida)

I built this from Outerzone plans about 6 months ago.

It was initially the tail drager plan. However I found the plane very difficult to take off from our grass strip as it would not track straight when taking off

The problem was that as soon as power was applied the tail and tail wheel lifted off the ground and the rudder did not have sufficient effect a low speed to. control the direction.

I modified the plane and converted it to a tricycle undercarriage as shown in the photos and that fixed the takeoff problem. However I did not like the way the plane turned with rudder only. Hence I added strip ailerons which now make the plane pleasant to fly. I would strongly recommend these two modifications.  I added the ailerons to the standard wing with 2 inch dihedral and it seams to work just fine. The plane is powered by a OS15LA which gives it ample power

I hope this post may be of interest

 

On a sadder note I learnt today that another Brit here in the US Eric Cluton died on Saturday from a serious heat attack. Eric designed the full size FRED and the Sharkface when he was living in the UK. I knew him when he was testing his FRED at Meir aerodrome near Stoke on Trent in the mid 60s.

 

 

[EarlyBird]

7 hours ago, Barry W said:

I built this from Outerzone plans about 6 months ago.

It was initially the tail drager plan. However I found the plane very difficult to take off from our grass strip as it would not track straight when taking off

The problem was that as soon as power was applied the tail and tail wheel lifted off the ground and the rudder did not have sufficient effect a low speed to. control the direction.

I modified the plane and converted it to a tricycle undercarriage as shown in the photos and that fixed the takeoff problem. However I did not like the way the plane turned with rudder only. Hence I added strip ailerons which now make the plane pleasant to fly. I would strongly recommend these two modifications.  I added the ailerons to the standard wing with 2 inch dihedral and it seams to work just fine.

Very nice model? and very interesting changes you made. Based on what you say about ground handling mine will be tricycle and steerable nose wheel.

Thanks Barry.

 

Steve

[EarlyBird]

TE fitted plus a few gussets.

 

 

LE sheet top dampened fitted and left to dry.

 

 

Glued and left overnight.

 

 

In the morning looks good.

 

 

Removing the weights and pins shows that I used a ruler and tape to hold the sheet in place.

 

 

The overhang is marked at the ends in line with the ribs and a guide line drawn.

Plane in hand I know the pencil line is a safe distance to go.

 

 

Planed as close as I dare go then used a sanding block.

LE glued fitted and clamped in place.

 

 

Leave it for a couple of hours then finish the aileron sheeting and cap strips. Nearly done. ?

 

Steve

[Nick Cripps]

Good progress, EB. Must be all those early starts...

[EarlyBird]

10 minutes ago, Nick Cripps said:

Good progress, EB. Must be all those early starts...

No it's not. It's you making me competitive ? as if. 

Quite simply I am enjoying the build and that makes me get on with it.

And the Mini Max plan is due to hit the mat soon so I have get a move on with this one.

 

Steve

[EarlyBird]

All done except LE shape and servo tray.

 

 

Starting the second wing now. ?

 

Steve

 

 

[EarlyBird]

First the bottom sheets pined down and lined up with the first wing.

 

 

 

Then all of the parts made up and laid out.

 

 

Time to hit the glue bottle.

?

 

Steve

[EarlyBird]

With the LE and TE accurately positioned, next is the bottom spar which also has to be set accurately and straight as this is the reference line for the whole wing.

A ruler is used as a jig then glue is applied to the spar, placed against the ruler and weighted down.

 

 

Once dried the bottom cap strips and aileron sheets are glued then using ribs the second spar is positioned and glued.

 

 

Next make the aileron spars.

 

Steve

[kevin b]

Well I'm going to build one of these.

If anyone wants to join me I can supply some laser cut parts, a plan and a canopy at about cost plus postage.

You would also need some balsa block, some 5mm sq balsa for the fuselage and the balsa for the wings (excluding ribs).

Should be about £40.00

Edited February 10, 2022 by kevin b

[EarlyBird]

Good day on the build.

 

 

something gone wrong with the shear webs though ?

 

I wonder if I can get this wing finished today ?

 

Steve

[Geoff S]

I notice that cgulltech (on eBay) amongst a lot of others is supplying sets of ribs for the Super 60.  I've been dealing with him for years since he supplied s/w to back-up Multiplex 3030 model data.  He's a pretty good guy in my experience and his rib sets are worth a look.