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No more Barkston Heath.


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13 hours ago, john stones 1 - Moderator said:

Can we move up North lads, you seen price of fuel. ?

Ditto for us down south ! Fuel is probably more expensive here in the south as are many other thing .?

Edited by Engine Doctor
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20 hours ago, Matt Carlton said:

I was reading the "other airfields" as being civilian ones. I can't imagine that other RAF airfields will be forthcoming when BH is not. Closed ranks and all that, if someone else says yes, doesn't it undermine the BH decision somewhat? 

 

Hopefully you are right, but it just feels a bit terminal, especially as the "excuse" was Covid last time, now all of a sudden it is "operational". 

 

 

Given the current situation in Eastern Europe at the moment, it is hardly surprising that all RAF stations are "operational".

Isn't that why we have them ?

Peace in our times chaps. Peace in our times.

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6 hours ago, kevin b said:

Given the current situation in Eastern Europe at the moment, it is hardly surprising that all RAF stations are "operational".

Isn't that why we have them ?

Peace in our times chaps. Peace in our times.

Matt has already explained that his post was tongue in cheek.

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11 hours ago, Lima Hotel Foxtrot said:

Absolutely. The National Flying Centre should be used or, really, what is the point of it?

Agree, however any Nats held at the NFC will not resemble what we've been used to at Barkston. Buckminster is simply too small to cater for what we've had in the past at Barkston Heath with its facilities for many hundreds of caravans and large crowds attending a huge jamboree of aeromodelling in one place over a single weekend.

Several competitions on a much smaller scale attracting far fewer numbers, probably pre-booked for spectators as is becoming the norm at full size airshows these days, and spread out over the summer months would be an option, I suspect.

Edited by Cuban8
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Very True, Ron. Any major change that may take place will have to be part of a major rethink in how the NFC calendar is arranged over the coming years. I'm not sure how the competition scene will survive otherwise.

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2 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

Agree, however any Nats held at the NFC will not resemble what we've been used to at Barkston. Buckminster is simply too small to cater for what we've had in the past at Barkston Heath with its facilities for many hundreds of caravans and large crowds attending a huge jamboree of aeromodelling in one place over a single weekend.

Several competitions on a much smaller scale attracting far fewer numbers, probably pre-booked for spectators as is becoming the norm at full size airshows these days, and spread out over the summer months would be an option, I suspect.

Yes, but the days of huge events are gone and the demographic who are into the NATS is, bluntly, dying off. 

 

Rose tinted memories and nostalgia won't change the facts.

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That's just what I'm saying LHF, every year that goes by, shifts the age demographic upwards, and with it, those preferences  away from what many of us now in our 50s, 60s, 70s and over used to enjoy back in the day. I'm not saying that every younger person entering our hobby  wouldn't find the old style Nats to their liking, but I do get the impression from younger members that I know, that they do look at things a bit differently. A lot of the reason is that they have so many other distractions to fill their time. Not a one size fits all situation by any means, but I think the emphasis is going that way.

Edited by Cuban8
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I think you're right, C8.  Young people don't make things like I and my friends did, probably because commercially available and relatively cheap stuff is here that didn't just after the war when I was at school.  I made waggons with pram wheels as a 10 year old which we 'raced' down traffic-free hills and eventually went on to building valve radios and amplifiers, repairing various motorcycles (an essential process in the 50s and 60s), then onto pedal bicycles and sailing dinghies and even the odd aeroplane though I was never an aeromodeller until much, much later.  Thank goodness we never had a TV or much of that wouldn't have happened and even less had the internet existed.

 

We've never had children and have had little to do with them ever, but, from what I see,  it's very different now.  Making stuff and hobbies in general just isn't as popular as it was.

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My own children are quite eye opening in terms of the future of the hobby. The following are broad statements of where their views are. 

 

1) Why go to the effort of making a model when you can buy a simulator and fly any model you want without risking breaking it? 

 

2) Building something that might break is pointless. Just buy something cheap that you can throw away. 

 

3) If you can't be good at something straight away, do something else. 

 

4) Why go and stand on a cold airfield to watch other people fly models, just watch it on YouTube. 

 

Models are boring. I have tried to engage them in the hobby, but their attention span is just not there. I took my eldest flying, he enjoyed stirring the sticks for 5 minutes and then went to sit in the car and play on his phone. 

 

It isn't bad, it's just different, but I do agree that long term, it makes an event like the Nats a bit redundant in the future. There will always be competition minded types and a niche for them to fill, but as a spectator event?

 

Stream it digitally with a choice of camera (ie Scale, Aerobatics etc) and do some interviews with flyers between rounds, maybe live commentary online and that might work. It would also allow the existing but aging/infirm audience to at least experience something. 

 

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On 06/03/2022 at 14:28, Geoff S said:

We've never had children and have had little to do with them ever, but, from what I see,  it's very different now.  Making stuff and hobbies in general just isn't as popular as it was.

Last Friday I visited our local branch of 'Hobbycraft' the hobby supplies chain store for some Tamiya paint. They are large warehouse style places catering  for all manner of practical hobbies from fancy cake making and general art to plastic kits and even have a small stock of balsa and ply (the balsa you could have used for floorboards I'm afraid). At mid-morning the place was really busy and selling a wide range of supplies used across their range. Clearly on that basis, people are still making things and using their hands but maybe the main emphasis has, or is changing away from our type of hobby that tends to  require a lot of long term focused time and commitment, towards activities that can be more easily accomodated into today's lifestyles.

BTW, Matt C's comments above are very familiar to me with my grandchildren who are always busy with 'stuff' but not much that appeals to me usually, although I do play along as best I can. I had a go on one of their VR headset based games a while back, and whilst very impressive, it's not something that I'd want to spend a lot of time with.

Edited by Cuban8
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Children:

 It has been my pleasure to engage with children for at least the last 50 years. 

During that time there has been a major shift in their interests and how they pursue any pastimes. 

The rot set in with the advent of video games. 

 

Many still play outside but most are happy to stay indoors and play in a darkened room for hours on end, staring at a tiny screen, playing a stupid, mind-numbing, electronic game, relentlessly stabbing away at it to achieve a reward of the next "level". 

 

Gone are days when they were prepared to spend time playing outdoors, socialising, climbing trees  and learning a (real) skill.  Nowadays, they want instant gratification, and will quickly lose interest if they have to invest any of their precious time away from a fashionable video game. 

 

Regrettably, many modern parents are happy to let their children spend their childhoods in those darkened rooms. 

During my time (20 years) as a Cub Scout Leader, I spoke to many parents - mostly stupid mothers - who were paranoid about letting their kids out on their own.  . Indeed, it is rare to see children playing in a park without a "helicopter" parent nearby. 

With the parents needing psychological help, the kids stand no chance.... !! 

 

Whilst there are still some kids who aren't afraid of fresh air, there are far too many who "can't be bothered" to stretch their horizons, but are becoming lazy, solitary, selfish, impatient and insular. 

 

But take away their phones and video games, and guess what............. they quickly turn back into (real) children with active imaginations. 

 

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I think that need to very careful not to dismiss video games (or just 'gaming' as it's more widely known) out of hand. Most of us of advancing years  tend to think of the early console and arcade games of the simple shoot 'em up or chase type formula, not forgetting good old Space Invaders of the 70's and 80s, but to be honest, modern gaming is so much deeper and involved than those early simple types. I don't know much about modern gaming and its doesn't appeal to me very much, but from what I've seen from family members, some games can be very absorbing and cerebral, given the powers of deduction and logic that need to be used to work out some fiendishly complex scenarios to complete various tasks. In some ways they can be regarded as the modern electronic version of the Times Crossword.

It's unfair to dismiss all gamers as mindless automatons with glazed over eyes, and as even with our hobby it's possible to overdo things to the detriment of family life, so a balance is needed. I remember many years ago a chap who joined our club to learn to  fly helicopters, but became so engrossed in the hobby and spent so much money on crashes (as you can do with helis) that it cost him his marriage.

Edited by Cuban8
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I'm pretty sure that had video games been available when I was still at school I would have been as obsessed as modern kids are.  I played a lot with toy soldiers and model trains for example and I was often told off for having my nose in a book rather than being outside.  The only video game I really got into was Elite on my BBC Microcomputer.  Unfortunately the accident that ultimately got me into RC has left me with limited hand control (I can cope with a joystick but anything involving independent finger movement is difficult) so any video game that needs a lot of dexterity is out for me.  I have Freecell  and Codeword applications on my phone which get played more often than they should ?

 

I don't blame kids at all but I regret their lack of the freedoms I enjoyed even when at primary school.  My father often would have had no idea where I was.

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I don't know how serious it was but  I saw  a proposal that gaming be included in the Olympics,  after bridge and darts too, non of them sports but then  I think bullfighting is a real sport and professional football is merely a game played for spectators

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15 minutes ago, john davidson 1 said:

I don't know how serious it was but  I saw  a proposal that gaming be included in the Olympics,  after bridge and darts too, non of them sports but then  I think bullfighting is a real sport and professional football is merely a game played for spectators

Ummm, wouldn’t object, if the bull man is happy to be chased round a cell by a bull with barbed spears, til he bled to death, ( or lady, given what day it is).  And don’t I recall,  competitive boys with toy planes is a sport, albeit not an Olympic sport.

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I have often thought that of all the various disciplines within our sport that control-line combat was the one to include in the Olympics.

When you look at the way the pilots move on the circle, and consider the mental exertion involved, it must be on a par with fencing.

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I suppose darts might (just) qualify as an Olympic sport, boring as it is to watch (unlike snooker) but I don't think Bridge would.  I write as one who used to play Bridge every lunch-time at work in a department with enough Bridge players to hold a tournament at the head of dept's house. 

 

However, entertaining as this is, we've wandered a bit off topic ?

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