Is it me?

[Zflyer]

Maybe I am being picky or over sensitive. I get twitchy when watching video of rc planes were the pilot stands/kneels in front of the aircraft when connecting the battery. With i/c you have no choice but placing yourself over the prop while connecting the battery. I know we have throttle cut but it still concerns me.

[Denis Watkins]

Scares the heck out of me.

Some fit the lipo, while sat in a chair, the model on their lap.I

I am told that the model is completely safe.

[kevin b]

I assume you are referring to electric powered planes.

I think it's a case of old habits dying hard (from starting ic engines).

I always sort out my electrics from the side of the model, or behind the wing (larger models) if at all possible.

You don't have to be in front of the model with electric for it to bite.

It's amazing how quickly they can spin around, even if restrained. I have the scars to prove it !

From a practical point of view they are more dangerous than ic.   Instant starting, don't stopif something goes into the prop arc and the fuel is more likely to catch fire.

Bye the way, it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. I like both, although the cleanliness of electric far outweighs the sound and the smell of ic.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

My personal bugbear - especially reaching through the prop arc...

 

I've also lost count of the number of times I've been told that it's OK because "I have a throttle cut set".

[Nick Cripps]

Yes, I hate to see that, too, and some pilots often have worse habits.

We had one club member a few months ago who connected up the battery in his model then left it on a table, along with the transmitter, and walked back to his car 100 yards away to get something. The same guy, the week before, accidentally knocked a switch on the top of his transmitter when putting it down and the motor immediately started up at full power. I still don't know how he got away with all his fingers and other bodily parts intact.

[Nick Cripps]

The other pet hate is seeing someone starting an i/c model with a transmitter strap hanging from his neck...

[SIMON CRAGG]

Many years ago, I fitted a dayglow piece of thick elastic to a Biro top which fitted over the end of the throttle stick. The other end was trapped under the access hatch to the TX battery. It stays on, until I am about to take off. Would be lost without it. Easy to see, easy to use and no damage to the TX. Even got featured in the RCME mag. Fame at last!.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Yes Nick - I've seen the amount of blood that can be released as a result of a strap catching on a throttle stick.  While I encourage the use of throttle cuts/locks as an additional layer of safety, didn't we have a report in this forum just last week about a transmitter switch mysteriously reversing its direction of operation?  This is only one example where reliance on them can cause complacency - human error is far more common and of course, not all radios have model match.

[MattyB]

4 hours ago, Zflyer said:

Maybe I am being picky or over sensitive. I get twitchy when watching video of rc planes were the pilot stands/kneels in front of the aircraft when connecting the battery. With i/c you have no choice but placing yourself over the prop while connecting the battery. I know we have throttle cut but it still concerns me.

If it can be avoided then I don’t do it, but I have at least 3 or 4 aircraft where connecting everything up from behind is just not practical. In the main these are undercarriage-free e-gliders which are actually very safe (as long as you assemble on the ground the prop has no clearance to turn), but my HK parkflyer Spad has a battery inserted and connected directly through the prop arc. The worst is the Sebart Miss Wind; it has a ridiculous design where the battery hatch was secured by a tiny screw about 5mm behind the prop arc (since replaced with magnets), on a model with ~1.3Kw of power! It does also happen to have a physical throttle isolation switch on the ESC though. 

 

Anyway, some won’t like it but in all these cases I use multi layered software throttle cuts as my primary safeguard. These make it essentially impossible to accidentally activate the throttle, requiring at least three preconditions (i.e stick at zero, flight mode switch to take off, throttle cut inhibited) and often more to be met before arming the motor. However, in some instances like the Miss Wind I go further and use an unknockable safety switch that requires a sequence of moves within a given timeframe to arm the model (in addition to the correct flight mode, throttle position etc.):

 

 

That is only possible because I use a TX with extensive capabilities based on logical switches though. Anyway, using these methods I’ve never had an involuntary startup in ~15 years of flying electric models.
 

Because of these multi layered safety measures in my TX setups I don’t tend to use physical isolation methods as a) they require you to spend more time in direct proximity to a live model after connecting the battery, and b) compared to software setups on the TX I know I personally would be more likely to make a mistake using a physical plug. However I accept those with less capable TXs may prefer those methods. Could my systems fail in an unexpected way (such as a total uncommanded wipe of the setup)? Yes, I suppose they could, but since I’ve never seen that happen in 35 years of flying I’m pretty comfortable it’s a lot less likely than me forgetting to remove a physical isolation plug at the end of a flight!
 

IMO arguing the merits of one approach versus another is essentially irrelevant - both approaches can work well, or even be used together. The only absolute is deciding on the methods that work for you and applying them consistently to every model every time you fly. 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by MattyB

[Nigel R]

9 hours ago, Zflyer said:

I get twitchy when watching video of rc planes were the pilot stands/kneels in front of the aircraft when connecting the battery.

 

You should try the ones where people are stood in front of an IC engine and they are revving the thing full bore, while reaching around the prop to goose the throttle.

 

Madness.

 

Eventually, Darwin will have his way.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Some Electric pilots put shivers down my spine,  especially after holding down one of our clubs electric pylon racers, I was holding it on the bench it had it's battery installed and he used a 'U' piece to activate the radio which should have been on safe made' it went flat out in my hands a bloody good job I was holding it down ?

 

 Four strokes can also be dangerous, flooded then the glow switched on, they can bite back badly,,,

 

 My only electrics are gliders, on the runway behind the model on the floor so if if stars up the prop will be blocked, on landing I get behind the model, radio on the floor and unplug the battery,,,

Edited April 6, 2022 by Paul De Tourtoulon
Me

[Eric Robson]

Last week one of the flyers at our club flew a Tundra type aeroplane and on landing someone started talking to him, he put the transmitter on a folding chair forgetting to turn everything off. It was a breezy day and a gust of wind blew the chair over, on hitting the ground the TX went to full throttle, fortunately the model was pointing to the strip not the pits, it shot away at high speed he managed to get to the TX and shut the throttle before it took off.

[Romeo Whisky]

I often see cavalier attitudes to handling armed electric models (eg. carried back from strip still armed with prop against stomach). 

Eric's scenario above begs for throttle cut to be set immediately on landing.  Other accidents waiting to happen are scarves in cold weather. 

On the field I've also pointed out the danger of people leaning over armed models (or while starting i/c models) with loose tee-shirts hanging outside trousers in warm weather.

 

I used to work for a company that sold fire-safes among other things.  A very difficult item to sell to people that have never experienced a fire!

[EvilC57]

We have strict rules about model handling in our club, for both IC and electric models.

 

Both types must be retrained with a crutch or peg of some kind, and cannot be started (or battery connected) until out on the flight line, i.e. not in the pits.

Once an IC engine is running, the user must go behind the prop to make any adjustments etc.

If possible, batteries must be fitted (or at least connected) from behind, with the model already restrained.

 

Anyone not observing these rules is quickly jumped on by 'the management'.

 

The only exceptions tend to be small EDF models, which we do sometimes connect up with the model on our lap while sitting in our chairs in the pits. However the rogue prop catching you out isn't really an issue with these.

 

Several years ago, I changed the engine kill/gear switch on my DX8 to an 'aerospace' style locking toggle switch, which can only be operated by deliberately pulling it upwards first. Obviously the most likely failure with this arrangement, is that I still have to make sure the throttle is closed before I operate it.  So far (touch wood!), it's never happened.

 

 

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

On this thread I'm seeing a lot of "I saw somebody doing xyz" but not much "I intervened when somebody xyz."

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Oh believe me, I do - and I don’t care how experienced the transgressor is.  I’d far rather take a little flak than take someone to hospital. 
 

It should be behaviour inbuilt from the beginning of training and it’s particularly important for instructors to demonstrate (and enforce) from the first visit of a newcomer so that safe handling becomes second nature.

 

P.S. I’m not advocating a dictatorial approach - normally pointing out the potential danger gets a positive response although it’s sometimes difficult to get the message over to some of the more senior flyers. 
 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Martin Harris - Moderator

[Stuart Z]

Pet hate, you see it quite often.  Transmitter is disconnected from lanyard and the lanyard left round neck.  Then you’ll see someone stand in front of the prop to start the engine with the lanyard swinging perilously close to the prop arc, and guess which way the air is going…….

 

S

[Bruce Collinson]

Interesting.   We were given the distinct impression that the practices described above were an immediate fail in the "A" certificate test.   Fitting from the front seems safe to me but connection ought always to be from behind the wing, or at least the prop.   The toggle type throttle cut switch is an extra safeguard, as is the elaborate arming procedure, but aren't all of these a secondary line of safety, second to treating it as thought it could go full chat at any time once the battery is connected?   Same with an esc switch, secondary, helpful but still hasn't disconnected the battery.

 

We do indeed intervene, politely, where there are blatant transgressions and we have a special award for outstanding displays of stupidity, misfortune, ill-conceived bravery etc which is planted behind the recipient's pit position when the transgressor isn't looking.   To great merriment, usually.   Known as the Cojones award, it could, following Nigel R's apposite reference, have been the Darwin Award.

 

This links to the recent post about electrifying a Wot 4 and the merits of using the tank hatch for LiPo access as opposed to a hatch underneath or even wing off.   If I had to use such a layout I'd fit an arming plug and socket to isolate the battery completely.

 

For what it's worth, I test all of the functions whilst the model is tethered, all flying surfaces (once took off with ailerons reversed ... won the Cojones award that day) and the throttle cut, power up gently then turn throttle off and it stays off until the nose is on the strip pointing away from the flightline (I don't taxi electrics, I'm too mean) then a power-on re-check before takeoff.

 

Tx straps, ties etc; my bugbear is the oily towel plonked in front of a revving i/c engine and I deliberately plonk the starter directly in front of the model on the rubber kneeling mat to discourage it from being ingested by the prop.   All habits I was told to acquire or developed watching others.   Distractions are potentially dangerous, one's routine is disrupted.   Live electrice are especially so.

 

No, not picky at all.   If you can still count to ten without taking your socks off then you have prevailed!

 

BTC

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

2 hours ago, Lima Hotel Foxtrot said:

On this thread I'm seeing a lot of "I saw somebody doing xyz" but not much "I intervened when somebody xyz."

Do we have to,, ?,,I have taken it on myself with the approval of the clubs President to be ( pompous title ) the safety officer,,,  and have been  doing it for around 5 + years, giving orders to the French,, (I love it ) as well as standing by  pilots when they are trying new things out, they are nervous and can easily do silly things as in taking off with the ailerons the wrong way,,,

 

 

But then again shouldn't we all be doing that ?.?

[Geoff S]

In order to minimise the chance of the throttle isolation switch being operated inadvertently, I've changed it from a toggle to the rotary switch on my Horus X10.  It's just about impossible to enable the motor accidentally. I also have a verbal warning programmed in. 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Lots of good suggestions but they are layers which need to be built on a firm foundation of good safety practice in the first place. 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

I do 90% of teaching in the club, all the safety advice is given from day one,,, and all of the time,