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Frsky X18 Tandem - the X9D+ replacement?


MattyB
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So Frsky have announced the X18, apparently incoming in the next month or two  - ETHOS based with touch capability, Tandem RF equipped (giving redundant links via simultaneous 2.4GHz ACCESS/D16 ACCST and 900MHz transmission), smaller lower res screen vs the X20 and a price around the same as the current X9D+:

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(It also comes in black)

 

I personally love the Open source firmware projects and feel conflicted about supporting Frsky given how they end of lifed D8 and tried to “lock” their ecosystem with the changes to D16 and introduction of ACCESS. It seems they are becoming another proprietary manufacturer (probably time to change the subtitle of this forum… ?), but the absence of affordable alternatives that offer similar functionality AND build quality along with a form factor that fits my hands has me pondering options. My original X9D is nearly 10 years old now, and the RM TX16S I bought for quads just doesn’t feel hat solid in my hands though nothing has actually gone wrong with it. Decisions decisions…

 

RCGroups product release thread on the X18

 

Edited by MattyB
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From the Frsky site…


Hardware
  • Enhanced ergonomic designed case with comfortable rounded hand grips
  • 4 Standard Trims with additional 2 extra trims
  • Integrate flash storage but also keep the internal TF card slot
  • Easy-to-reach top switches and sliders
  • With a flat base to improve stability when standing the radio
  • Color Touch-Screen Displays
  • High-Precision Hall-Sensor Gimbals with a Metal Panel
  • 6 Quick-Mode Custom Buttons (Front) and 2 Momentary Buttons (Rear)
  • Lite Type External Module Bay
  • Haptic Vibration Alerts and Voice Speech Outputs
  • Supports Recharge System for 2S Li-ion Battery (USB Type-C Interface)
  • High-speed PARA Wireless Training System
TD-ISRM RF Module
  • Built-in TD 900M/2.4G Dual-Band Internal RF Module Supports Multiple Working Modes
    • 2.4G ACCST D16 Mode (Compatible with ACCST Receivers with D16 V2 or later FW)
    • 2.4GACCESS Mode (Compatible with ACCESS Receivers)*
    • 900M ACCESS Mode (Compatible with ACCESS R9 868/915MHz Receivers)*
      (*Capable of simultaneous working under ACCESS mode)
    • 2.4G & 900M TD Mode (Compatible with TD Receivers)
  • Long-range control and super-low latency with telemetry
    (*Up to 50 to 100KM range and down to 4ms end-to-end latency)
ETHOS System
  • Clear and Intuitive UI Design
  • Supports Dual Operation Modes of Radio Display (Touch and Non-Touch)
  • Supports Multi-Language Switching
  • Hardware/Software Version and Factory Version Detection
  • Supports running LUA Scripts

Specifications

  • Dimension: 200*192*95mm (L*W*H)
  • Weight: 687g (Battery Excl.) / 820g (Battery Incl.)
  • Operating System: ETHOS
  • Internal RF Module: TD-ISRM
  • Number of Channels: Up to 24 channels
  • Operating Voltage Range: 6.5 ~ 8.4V (2S Li-battery)
  • Operating Temperature: -10°C~60°C (14°F~140°F)
  • Operating Current: [email protected] (typ.)
  • Charging Current: ≤1A ±200mA
  • USB Adaptor Voltage: 5V+0.2V
  • USB Adaptor Current: >2.0A
  • Backlit touchable LCD resolution: 480*320
  • Compatibility: ACCST D16 & ACCESS & TD receivers
Edited by MattyB
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Just noticed it has appeared on T9; price is £254, so a fair bit above the current X9D+, but then all Frsky TXs are expected to receive a hike in the near future due to the supply chain issues and general inflationary pressures. At present the X20 at £316 probably seems more compelling, but if that goes to £400... ?

 

Edited by MattyB
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  • 3 weeks later...

I see the X18's are just getting out to beta testers (I guess that's what they are?), should see some reviews soon.  More than happy with my X20S, and don't think the smaller screen would be too great anyway.  Looking at getting the X24 is (when!) it appears and retire the X20S to just powered aircraft flying.

 

Edited by Andy Meade
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As an outsider, in that I know nothing much about Frsky (other than their Futaba Fasst compatible Rxs) there seems a lot of different models and ranges of their txs etc. I just wonder why? As a user are there major additional functionalities being introduced with each model type?

 

Although not a theme of this thread, are there just about 3 major brands selling in the UK (Futaba, Spectrum, and of course Frsky). Are the others just hanging on?

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Increasingly I have come to believe that much of our hobby has and is changing. I have also come to believe that at least in the UK that our numbers have and continue to reduce. I have seen that many children's flying things come with radio systems where all the kit is less than the cost of the weekly shop for pensioners, whereas in my early 30s something similar could cost over a few months wages.

 

In the case of the FRsky kit, I still wonder why there appears to be so many radio models?

 

For what is now a below average club modeller, is a basic (I assume 9d) would do. I require a few model memories, end point adjustment, centreing facility, a few mixis (flying wing and so on. Ideally a few assignable switches.

 

As for Futaba, if it ceases making radios (or at least marketing), so be it. I am guessing that many more sell even less, Sanwa, Multiplex, Graupner, along with JR the once bedrocks of the UK modelling scene. All of which begs the question how many Radio systems we modellers use are now sold annually?

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27 minutes ago, Erfolg said:

In the case of the FRsky kit, I still wonder why there appears to be so many radio models?

Different models for different wallets, different models offer different ergonomics, different models offer different build quality, different models have higher class components (gimbals etc). As an example, I have a couple of Taranis X9s and whilst they are really good they do not have the same quality of build or components as my X10S.

Edited by Ron Gray
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56 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

Different models for different wallets, different models offer different ergonomics, different models offer different build quality, different models have higher class components (gimbals etc). As an example, I have a couple of Taranis X9s and whilst they are really good they do not have the same quality of build or components as my X10S.


All true, but part of the reason for the (relatively) large range of models at present is that Frsky are at an inflection point. They are trying to move from a predominantly low cost range based on open source firmware to a more “traditional” big brand proprietary model where they have invested substantially to produce a closed source OS (ETHOS) over which they have much more control. They’ve also come up another RF protocol (ACCESS) with additional functionality and full encryption to prevent them being used with multi protocol TXs. As a result they essentially have two ranges being sold in parallel at the moment, the new X18/20 TANDEM series and all the older sets based on OTx firmware. I expect most of the OTX sets to be removed from sale within the next 18 months or so.
 

Why have they done this? Because their lunch had started to be eaten by low cost manufacturers (some setup by ex-Frsky employees) who developed TXs like the TX16S. These use the latest OpenTX functionality, add functions like touch and the multi protocol support at very low prices. These TXs stole huge amounts of sales from Frsky which they weren’t happy with, especially the much anticipated (and theoretically more profitable) X10. Ironically the disruptor was being disrupted, and whilst they successfully stopped RM selling illegally cloned Frsky RXs they couldn’t squish the T16S as nothing illegal had been done, resulting in the X10 underperforming from a sales perspective.
 

Personally I have some issues with the way Frsky have behaved in recent years (particularly the horlicks they made of ACCST v2 and ACCESS initially), and their QC on new products remains highly questionable. However I am too deeply invested in Frsky at this point to move elsewhere, especially given the only alternatives that offer similar functionality and logic (Jeti and Core) are far more expensive. I guess I will have to learn ETHOS after all, though thankfully it does appear to offer most of the flexibility and logic of OpenTX.

Edited by MattyB
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I think I use the frsky qx7 and that is complex enough for me and plenty model slots. I can't imagine upgrading anytime soon as any extra complexity is all things I would never use. I think I use a few switches and have trims but as yet that us my limit. I am still learning but I don't ever aspire to flying a model that need fancy radio stuff. Plus frsky confused me with thier firmware changes and as I have a handful of radiomaster rx's that currently work, I don't want to change anything!

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2 minutes ago, Graeme White said:

I think I use the frsky qx7 and that is complex enough for me and plenty model slots. I can't imagine upgrading anytime soon as any extra complexity is all things I would never use. I think I use a few switches and have trims but as yet that us my limit. I am still learning but I don't ever aspire to flying a model that need fancy radio stuff. Plus frsky confused me with thier firmware changes and as I have a handful of radiomaster rx's that currently work, I don't want to change anything!


Frsky have developed ETHOS exactly because too many of their target market feel like you do i.e they’d like something simpler to setup. ETHOS still lacks a very small number of the most advanced OpenTX features, but that gap is closing quickly it’s supposed to be substantially simpler for newcomers. The Tandem dual RF features are nice to have, but for most models will be unnecessary. The over the air RX updates though are very handy, especially if you have your RXs installed in tight glider fuselages.

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I think I am getting it. That is there two ranges, an open code range and a pre defined structured menu, supplier defined coded range. Why there are to me, apparently so many models with different operating systems in the various models is still something of a mystery to me. Other than I find it disturbing, in that compatibility becomes an issue, which if true I dislike.

 

For people like me is the qx7 is what I should purchase? The latest top end Tx something that is of passing interest, a bit of male jewellery?

 

Although my old Futaba FG9 Fasst does all I want, I suspect that the day is coming when it either breaks or that alternative Fasst Rxs are no longer available or become unacceptably expensive. In the past Futaba were seen as good, in that there was a whole industry supplying compatible accessories. For some years now I have looked towards FRsky  as a potential similar company, is this how it is now?

 

Who is, or what is Radiomaster, as I do not think I have seen or read of them, are they relevant, in having a track record and potential longevity.

 

 

 

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Radiomaster is a relatively new player, selling radios at a price point that undercuts FrSky.  The best selling model seems to be the TX16S. They can have OpenTX or EdgeTX as the operating system (EdgeTX is the evolution of OpenTX and is still subject to new releases and functionality, including touch screen capability).

 

I have a TX16S, and it's pretty amazing for the price - 16 channels, plus inbuilt multi-protocol module allowing you to use many many brands of Rx.  I use mine with Spektrum and clones (DSM2 and DSMX), Futaba and clones (FASST), FrSky and clones (not ACCESS), and Radiomaster.

 

I've had it for about 14 months and have had zero issues with it. It's nowhere near as well built as, say, Futaba, or current Spektrum, but to get the same functionality on, say Spektrum, you'd pay close to 10 times more.

 

Obviously can't comment on Radiomaster longevity yet.............. they do seem to be the 'new FrSky'.

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I have been a very big fan of OpenTX since I bought my first Taranis around 2013 or 2014.  The only thing that I disliked about it was its poor hardware quality.  The long switches at the back broke off just by looking at them, and the plastic switches around the screen were just as awful as it gets.

In terms of capabilities and features, OpenTX wins hands down.  Not to mention the Companion program, which allowed me to bypass the very awkward way of navigating through the menus on the Taranis, and not having to use the no-feedback plastic select switches around the screen.

After damaging the antenna (my stupid mistake), I got errors about the antenna on the screen, so I replaced it by a Horus X10S, which is brilliant in so many ways, except its weight and the battery life.  I replaced the battery with a 2P2S Lipo, getting me 7000mAh and many days at the field before a recharge (that also takes as many days, lol).

When Ethos came out on the X20, I was intrigued, but I share the feeling about a closed and proprietary system.

Recently, a fellow club member sold his X20S for a price that I couldn't refuse, so I decided to try it out.

First of all, I'm not a fan of touchscreen.  The buttons are way too small to be practical, even with my tiny little fingers.  And having to really avoid touching the screen when manipulating the radio around the field is another worry that I have.  I want at least to be able to disable the touch function when I'm not programming the radio.

Ethos has caught up considerably with OpenTX, but I'm still missing things like real calculated telemetry fields, using simple arithmetic.  I'm used to measure current, then calculate power by multiplying it with battery voltage.  Not possible on Ethos at this point.

A lot of things are clearly derived from OpenTX, but implemented differently and located at other places in the menus.

Take for instance the "delay up" and "delay down" on a channel.  In OTX, it is in the channel setup screen, next to the "slow up" and "slow down".  In Ethos, you have to use a sequencer mix (I think).  All settings that you can find together in the channel setup in OTX are spread over "Mixes" and "Outputs" in Ethos.  It takes some getting used to.

OpenTX development seems to have come to a halt somehow, and morphed into EdgeTX.  I don't know what to think of EdgeTX, but it feels to me like it is being branched all over the place to implement all sorts of features and multi-protocol stuff, which scares me as a software architect.

I really like the hardware, the form factor and the weight of the X20S, even as a "pincher" (I added a tray and long sticks with integrated switches).  I even prefer those aspects of it over my X10S.  Except the screen, which is much brighter on the X10S.  The screen on the X20S is a bit harder to read in sunlight, probably due to the touch screen layer.

I have kept an open mind over Ethos, I'm starting to get used of it but still find some things awkward.  Maybe it's my programmers brain that prefers OTX being more logical and organized than the "fancy layer" that Ethos is and confuses me all the time?  I feel like being forced into some straightjacket of pre-programmed mixes that I don't need and don't use.  Which is the very reason why I never liked radios like Spektrum; I could never figure those out.  You have to find in whatever they supply as mixes and try to achieve simple stuff by endlessly combining and manipulating preprogrammed stuff.  In OTX, I just select a certain channel, then add and mix whatever inputs that I want to combine.  Where is the steep learning curve in that?

But I keep an open mind over Ethos, and try to program my existing models in it, one by one, to learn and test.  And I must admit, it's good, it works well so far.  I use both radios at the field, and don't have any problems going from one to the other when changing models.

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Development stopped on OpenTX as FrSky started to lock people in with ETHOS.  EdgeTX is having some of the developments that OpenTX didn't - like touch screen support.  In EdgeTX, it is possible to disable touch screen with a Special Function so you have the flexibility.  At the field, I don't make any complex changes so my fat fingers don't cause issues. I do use it for model selection as it's so much easier than scrolling with the wheel.

 

I too worked in IT for 35 years before recent retirement.  The developers on Edge seem to have a pretty good handle on content, development and releases - had no issues so far.

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