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Bmfa news arrived in this morning's post ( wish the dwp letter would ! ).

 

I read, twice, the article about radio kit and mobile phones...

 

What about programming a tx via WiFi with a mobile phone ?

 

 

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The only tricky bit is downloading the app (there's an app for that) ? the second tricky bit is learning to use the app, some people struggle, I have no such problems as I always remember the cable, it's kept in my Tx case.

 

 

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Quite so David.

 

Downloading the app to my mobile was easy, drama and hassle free, the latest version too.

 

But what of WiFi and close proximity of tx and smartphone when changing tx set up etc..

 

When you have read the article, some feedback could be usefull ?

 

I don't know if Dave Blandford is a member/contributers on here ?

 

Sir, if you are, please could you comment ?

 

I have known for some time the "interference" caused by my old mobile phone when it's sitting by the TV and the mobile system "logs in" to it, about every 20 mins or so...

 

I wonder what effect flying thru the microwave "beam" from telephone exchange to exchange/mast would have on an Rx ?

 

All interesting stuff...

 

I have been told that even loose wire fencing surrounding a flying field can cause problems sometimes...

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29 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

I wonder what effect flying thru the microwave "beam" from telephone exchange to exchange/mast would have on an Rx ?

 

Very high power focused beam. Can kill wildlife.

 

30 minutes ago, Rich Griff said:

But what of WiFi and close proximity of tx and smartphone when changing tx set up etc..

 

Might cause a wifi packet drop.

 

Mitigations exist within protocol.

 

Not something I'd be particularly concerned about.

 

I'd be far more worried about bugs within the app itself.

 

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20 minutes ago, PatMc said:

How can I use this on the cats that think my garden's a toilet ?

Off topic sorry but I use coffee grounds the smell puts them off.

 

I have a watering can by the backdoor ready for the morning top up from the cafeteria I add water and sprinkle it around the plants, something like once a week.

 

Back on topic if using a WiFi app caused a problem then surely the manufacturers/retailers would not sell it. 

 

Steve

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Yes eb, that's what occured to me as well, the manufacturer not the coffee grounds...

 

As to cats, get a dog...

 

Blimmey, didn't realise that the dedicated microwave links were powerfully enough to kill wildlife...

 

The app I downloaded for tx programming was direct from the manufacturer of the radio set, so hopefully ok. I went the WiFi route as I don't have a suitable computer.

 

Anyways, everything so far aok.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Rich Griff said:

Quite so David.

 

 

 

I have been told that even loose wire fencing surrounding a flying field can cause problems sometimes...

I used to fly on a farm near where I lived just outside of Banbury, the strip was on top of a hill, on the approach from one direction there was a wire fence which would be approx.50 ft below. when coming in to land there was always a glitch at that point some times severe,  I was on 35 then, it was at the time when Spektrum brought out the 2,4g  so I bought the new  DX7 set. It still glitched at that point only not quite severe. I never found out if it was the fence but it seemed the most obvious cause.

I was the only one that flew there,

Edited by Eric Robson
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                On my farm I have a number of electric fences to keep the naughty beasts and GG's in their paddock's.

          When home flying on 35 I would sometimes get a glitch, this would be most likely if the fence was shorting out somewhere going to ground mainly because of plant growth.

Walking around the fence you would hear the click of the short and then see the spark as the power jumped to earth. Early "spark generator" radios worked like this sending out a burst of radio waves over a wide frequency each time the key was pressed.

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Posted (edited)
On 24/05/2022 at 13:34, Rich Griff said:

Bmfa news arrived in this morning's post ( wish the dwp letter would ! ).

 

I read, twice, the article about radio kit and mobile phones...

 

What about programming a tx via WiFi with a mobile phone ?

 

 

Even though I agree with him that mobiles are potentially capable of causing the kind of transmission (note - not reception!) issues that David Blandford talks about in the BMFA News, personally I thought it was a poorly written and badly argued article...

 

  • There was more than a whiff of "look at my medals, I may have no proof but you should believe what I say because of my professional experience and the people I know/have talked to". The tone was derogatory at times, dismissing anyone with doubts as a "...flat earther". If he is trying to convince people he's going about it a very strange way.
  • Quite a few completely unsubstantiated views were presented as "facts" - case in point, "...cheaper gear will necessarily be more prone to EMP than top-end stuff, all other factors being equal, since cheaper gear will have little or no screening"! Err, what actual evidence do you actually have of that mate? He then goes on to give an example in the next column of an example of what he believes to be mobile induced incident where his own JR 2.4 GHz radio was affected - presumably he believe are JR a "cheap, poorly shielded" brand then? If not, why did it have an issue?
  • As is pointed out in this thread, he completely overlooks the fact that many modern TXs have built in wireless update/config capabilities, and are designed to be used with a phone in direct connection via bluetooth or wifi. Are these also "poorly shielded"? What about the fact large numbers of TXs have wireless trainer facility using an inbuilt 2.4GHz RX and/or bluetooth whilst they are controlling the model? Here's another chestnut from the article.... "Keep your phoone away from all your radio gear at all times, not just when flying. If you put your transmitter down in your car next to your phone while you have a coffee you may still get data corruption" - has he validated that view with the engineers at Spektrum, Frsky and Jeti then? ?
  • If I am standing next to someone else flying with another TX that transmitter could be only a few inches from mine - why does he not talk about this use case? Presumably he believe the lower power of our TXs vs mobile phones is part of that, but again, it's a significant use case he fails to discuss, presumably because it may undermine his argument.
  • Most tellingly for me, our esteemed author completely overlooks the fact it is perfectly possible to do some controlled scientific testing using modern telemetry RC gear. Example - Setup a model to carry two receivers with independent power supplies. One is for control and is connected to the servos and bound to the primary TX. The second (which must have telemetry logging capability) is connected to nothing other than the secondary power supply onboard, but bound to a second TX with a phone directly strapped to the back of it. For the experiment the model takes off and is flown around by a pilot on the primary TX, whilst a number of tests can be made with the phone (call it, browse internet, connect to wifi, use as wifi hotspot etc) by other people. After the flight the secondary TX setup, phone and telemetry logs can then be checked to see if anything happened, at what point and map it to specific activities undertaken on the phone. Within a few flights you should be able to get some pretty decent data - no, not thousands of data points, but a heck of a lot more than what he has today (which is entirely qualitative).

 

One can only wonder why if he is so interested in this topic he has not tried to do some real testing of this type himself? Perhaps he is too much of a "flat earther" to own or use telemetry RC gear... ??

Edited by MattyB
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45 minutes ago, MattyB said:

Setup a model

 

Or just put the clobber on a table and take the TX a half mile away.

 

Is the author seriously trying to suggest that a mobile phone sat near a TX is going to corrupt its permanent storage?

 

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Just observations but back in the early days of telemetry the the display was via Bluetooth to the phone screen which was often clipped on to a holder at the top of the TX, I don't recall suggestion about turning anything off.

 

Phones also aren't requested to be turned off at displays such as at Barkston, yes they are further away but there also a lot of them as well. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nigel R said:

 

Or just put the clobber on a table and take the TX a half mile away.

 

Is the author seriously trying to suggest that a mobile phone sat near a TX is going to corrupt its permanent storage?

 

 

It would appear so. As per the rest of the article though, there is no evidence proffered, just a lot of "listen to me, I'm an expert". Here's his sign-off - Remember people, don't play Russian roulette with over-friendly dogs, it's dangerous out there...! ?‍♂️

 

2A6103ED-D20B-448C-BF62-6541A729AC43.thumb.jpeg.dfa61713d12b981a187c195f9e58ae85.jpeg

Edited by MattyB
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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Nigel R said:

It's almost like ECC memory wasn't invented yet.

 

I am surprised he even flies RC tbh; based on the article I would have guessed control line, that new fangled wireless communication stuff just sounds too dangerous...

Edited by MattyB
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I think you’re being a bit harsh folks. The author is a very capable and knowledgeable electronics engineer and, whilst his opinion is just that - an opinion- it is one I would give much more weight to that many others that are often expressed with far less supporting argument.I think he’s trying to get across some valid points that we do need to be aware of. Having said that, I do agree that the article would have benefitted from a severe dose of editing. If it had been reduced to 50% of its current length I suspect that some of the more emotive remarks that have clearly wrankled with some would have got the chop.

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I guess I was just lucky during the centenary record attempt then.

 

I had my "cheap" Jumper T16 transmitter on a neck strap with my mobile phone resting over the display running a real time clock to ensure we hit 12:00hrs exactly.

 

Logs show no issues with my RF signal at all.

 

Having said that, I do have the utmost respect for Dave Blandford and the assistance and development he has given to the FrSky / Open TX community and the testing he has done on all of our behalves for  a better RC world.

 

I must also admit that I gave up reading the article about half way through.?

 

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Be aware that the author makes a point that it is in close proximity to sensitive electronics that a " pulse " or EMP produced when the iPhone is rung and responds to a call, where possible damage can be done.

RF is not the issue of interference as microwave devices have little interaction of RF.

The " pulse" risks damage to small components on circuit boards and memory cards as would be if you probed about with a live set of probes.

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43 minutes ago, Andy Gates said:

I do have the utmost respect for Dave Blandford and the assistance and development he has given to the FrSky / Open TX community and the testing he has done on all of our behalves for  a better RC world.

Are you thinking of Mike Blandford?

 

Steve

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