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9 hours ago, stu knowles said:

Sorry can't understand any decision to stop i/c powered flying.  I have seen video of turbines bursting into flames on impact but never a glow/ petrol/ diesel powered model.

Since Lipos entered onto the scene they are by far the most common cause of unintended fires.  I particularly worry when a lekky powered model is lost in a cornfield.  If it were to be ingested into a combine and then start to burn then the consequences and potential final bill could easily exceed £250K for the combined harvester alone.

 

If you are going to ban anything at this time of year then Turbines and Lipo powered models are the obvious places to start.

 

As for extinguishing fires, on moorlands it is not uncomon to see fails provided to beat out fires. Probably of more use than a conventional fire extinguisher on crop fires??

 

We only initially banned ic models to demonstrate to our landlord that we were taking his concerns seriously.  Once we had time for proper internal debate, we agreed LiPo fires are probably most common (we have no Turbines - our field is too small) and, so as not to 'demonise' any particular cohort, ceased flying of any powered craft.

 

We've never lost a model in corn, but a few have been lost in Rape - both spotted whilst harvesting - the drivers of the harvesting machines are pretty vigilant!

 

We specifically tell our members not to attempt to fight any crop fires - the extinguishers are solely for use on 'our' field...... the fire brigade will just let a crop fire burn, making sure property/lives are not lost.

 

Some members are planning in visiting today - hopefully they will all follow the new no-fly zone!

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Next question.....

 

Some members have questioned the need for extinguishers, and believe they should be provided by the club.  This makes me nervous as:

 

a. We don't have a secure place to put them

b. if the club provides then, the club is responsible for making sure they're fit for purpose.

 

Before I cast my vote as 'No' at the AGM, believing in personal responsibility, what happens elsewhere? I know of a local club that has them locked in a secure storage facility, but don't think all members have a key - making it a pretty poor solution in my view.

 

Thoughts welcomed! 

 

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Depending on the type of fire Paul may be right. Fire buckets with water would deal with a grass fire or a methanol fire, but would be useless for petrol. Lipo's are their own problem entirely and you might be reduced to simply dealing with the collateral damage and leaving the lipo to burn itself out. 

 

Generally though i think that if a club has the option some firefighting equipment would be a good idea in the same way that a first aid kit on site is a good idea. Personal responsibility is one thing, but having additional equipment on hand as a backup is not exactly a bad idea. 

 

As for responsibility of the club to provide the correct type, that should not be that difficult as there are only 2 types of fire we really need to worry about. wood/grass/plastic etc and petrol. We dont suffer electrical fires in the sense that lipos cannot be put out and any burning electric model is mostly a wood/plastic fire at that point. looking here https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-extinguisher-types/#:~:text=The six main fire extinguisher,fire extinguisher for your needs. it seems that water mist or powder are the ways to go for model applications. Add to that a fire bucket or two for less serious events and you probably have the basics covered. 

 

The problem i suppose is that fires are generally rare and so we become complacent. I have had a few methanol fires over the years and running my petrol engine always causes me concern. Again though, after 8 years flying it i have become more complacent and no longer bring my extinguisher with me when i probably should. 

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Frankly, I'd never given much thought to this before now. The problem with 'the club' providing extinguishers, is that it then falls upon them to ensure that the extinguishers are safe, functional and 'in date'. This usually entails farming out the supply and maintenance to a 3rd party, hence expense.

In a motorsport environment, from club level karting onwards, the onus is on the competitor or team to have functional extinguishers in their garage or awning within the paddock. Once on track, obviously the marshals deal with any problems that occur.

IMHO if they are felt to be necessary, it should be up to us as individuals to provide suitable (for the type and quantity of fuel) extinguishers. Better still, ensure that the risks are minimised, particularly by keeping stored fuel (or unused Lipos) well away from the hot noisy bits.

Having said all of that, I think that having a couple of beaters to hand would be a good idea, to try to prevent the spread of any fire should it unfortunately occur.

Kim

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The only fires I have seen on the model field are Cox engines 50 years ago, and then you can't see the flames just the colour of the nose changing, and electric planes with lipo's crashing has become a current occurrence today as a lot of beginners start with them, and of course BBQ's,

 

sand is a good option with water, as for the clubs extinguisher who will be held responsible for it and where will it be stored ?,

so why not in this hot weather get one of your own £20 is a small price to pay and you never know when you might need it on the road.

 

 When i did Karting each kart owner had to have his own extinguisher .

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  • 1 month later...

Years ago I flew on a farm strip surrounded by cereal crops. I should mention that the farmer was a keen modeler  and flier. Each July as the crops ripened we would stop flying until after the harvest, usually about a month. The risk of fire was not the reason however, the farmer being a model flyer knew the risk of fire was extremely low. His concern was the damage to the crop caused by fliers looking for and retrieving any models that landed out in the crop. A very good reason we thought. Some of his fields ran alongside the railway line and in the age of steam crop fires were a regular occurence. He likened a crop fire to a pool of petrol burning. The fire would take out the ears of grain and would spread even in a light wind faster than you could run . So trying to put out a crop fire is a non starter.

 

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Our flying field is surrounded by crops but we do not go into them normally and always follow the tramlines.  The farmer is perfectly happy with that.

 

I was dead worried as my house is surrounded by crops right close in.  I  was relieved when they harvested it and even more so whan they bailed it...even if they started that operation as 10.30pm!! Right outside my bedroom window.

My house arrowed in picture

 

Lower picture is our flying field

 

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On 27/07/2022 at 10:10, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

What's wrong with a few old 10 litre paint containers or cut down 5 litre methanol cans filled with water placed around the model field.

Paul you have obviously not attended a decent grass fire let alone a fire in a standing crop. I have spent many hours of my working life as a fireman extinguishing and in some cases trying to extinguish crop and stubble fires. It only takes a 5 or 6 mile an hour breeze and the fire will spread quicker than you can run! NEVER underestimate a grass fire or any fire . A few cans of water might work if there is no wind and you are close enough fit enough and fast to get there and extinguish it before it gets a hold but add a slight breeze and they will be less than useless. Add to this that the majority of modellers are getting on and most of them  would undoubtedly try their hardest in the case of a fire to put it out putting their lives at risk not from the fire but from heart attack etc.

If a grass , stubble or worse still a standing crop catches fire leave it to the professionals to deal with and get to safety. 

 

Re the OP . In all the years I have only seen turbines and electric models catch alight when they crash but would also be wary of petrol power . The only time Ive seen diesel or glow engines catch alight is in the pits while starting them. As Paul says having an extinguisher with you is a sensible precaution in any weather.

Oh I forgot that I set some grass alight many years ago flying a jetex model with my son but being a lot younger and fitter we put it out using our jackets as beaters !😳

Better to be careful and keep your farmer landlord happy . It may pay dividends for your club later . As for those that criticise you for being over cautious, they wouldn't be seen for dust in the event of worst  case scenario.

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