Can you be too experienced or has familiarity bred contempt?

[David Davis]

I am not a great builder nor more than an indifferent pilot. Oh I have passed some certificates and can fly some aerobatic manouevres but if I have any claim to skill in the world of r/c flight it is in teaching elderly beginners how to fly to A Certificate standard, something which I've done over the last thirty years or so. I have always impressed upon my charges the importance of checking that the ailerons, elevator and rudder are moving in the correct direction and that the rates are in the appropriate position just before you advance that throttle and take off.

 

One Sunday, a couple of weeks ago I had been busy teaching two beginners how to fly at my local club. I had also spent some time in my workshop teaching one of them how to build. I'd taken my ARTF Laser 70 powered Acrowot with me to the field as well as the club's trainer.

 

I had been having some problems with the throttle control on the Acrowot. Basically if I pulled the throttle lever below half way the engine would stop and all of the travel of the throttle arm seemed to happen only after the halfway position was reached on the transmitter, a Spektrum DX9. I concluded that I'd accidentally done something to the throttle channel programming and being hopeless with computers, on the Saturday night I put the model onto a new memory and sure enough the throttle control worked normally.

 

Having taken up the beginners on the buddy box I decided to fly the Acrowot. I set the throttle cut and started the engine which ticked over like the proverbial Swiss watch. I waggled the sticks about and carried the model to the runway. One more stir on the sticks and I pushed the throttle forward.  It veered to the left, I put in right rudder and it spun round in a left-hand circle before hitting the grass alongside the runway. This stopped the engine. I retrieved the model and found out that the rudder was reversed. Not only the rudder, the elevator was reversed too! I sorted those out but wait there's more...

 

I started the engine, walked down to the runway, gave all of the controls a proper check this time and took off. The model dropped its right-hand wing slightly. I fed in left aileron. The model twitched violently to the left then to the right as I over-corrected. With my heart pounding I gained altitude and I spent the rest of the flight just breathing on the aileron stick to get the model to turn. I had set neither rates nor differential! Unfortunately for me there were three other pilots in the air at that time. Two were flying electric models and were soon down but the third was the best pilot in the club putting one of his old patternships through the schedule. I parked my model at a good altitude waiting for him to land, then I manged to land successfully. Subsequently, diffential and rates have been programmed in!

 

Now what was the expression? Prior planning and preparation prevent poor performance? 🙄

 

 

[J D 8]

           I recon I had similar " oh it will be all right " attitude with an old Ezee Pzee trainer I was given to see if it would make a club trainer but did not do a proper inspection of control linkages. a case of should have, could have, would have but did not. You have seen the result in " How are we responding" post.  John.

[Jon H]

This sort of thing is so easy to do and not just to us model pilots. 

 

I was watching the video below the other day and it details how a very experienced full size pilot met his end due to a failure to complete adequate preflight checks. I was pondering posting it here and your thread has just popped up so it seemed fitting. 

 

We are fortunate that our mistakes rarely cause us anything more than embarrassment but the video is very educational and the conclusions are just as valid for us as they are for full size. Most crashes are avoidable and we should do all we can to keep them to a minimum. 

 

 

[John Lee]

[ken anderson.]

hey DD,i wouldn't beat your self up too much about it,just shows that you are the same as everyone else....we've all done things and afterwards thought similar to you...happens. The main thing is we learn from our slip ups...i've been flying for 30+ years and setting a model up and talking away like a goodin,i hand launched said model......and had limited/no control and smashed it to bits......reason...wrong model selected in TX.....come on i thought.....see,we all do it.....☠️

 

ken anderson....ne...1..model selection dept. 

[Keith Berriman]

Last week I took a model for a maiden flight having done all the set ups on the bench with low med high rates on ailerons of we go .  Unfortunately some how my rate switch had been knocked into high set up and I did not do a final ground check before opening throttle

Into the air we go and having to fight for control I got it round for a landing needless to say I did not make a smooth landing 

Only when taking my other plane up did I see the rate switch position

Check check and triple check next time I am ready to open the throttle 

 

 

 

[Don Fry]

I plead the 5th on some of the idiot things, omissions, and shear crass stupid I have managed to do over the years in regards to preflight checks. Last year I did some programming mods to a biplane with 4 ailerons. Quite complex, carefully checked on the bench it looked right. Checked on the flight line. Checked before takeoff. Reversed. 

[Simon Burch 1]

My experience as a full-size flying instructor has demonstrated to me that age and experience offer some protection, but absolutely no immunity, from mistakes. The important thing is to learn from them and, by highlighting how they happened, give others the opportunity to avoid making similar ones - as you've done here.  Thank you.

[Chris Walby]

A couple of personal experiences

 

Once asked to maiden a club members balsa electric (smallish) Extra. and with full and free movement in he right direction proceeded to take off with his TX in hand. What i had not anticipated was the owner having set full rates, no expo and in 3D throws! Take off was gentle however the roll was like a whirling dervish as it climbed out with a roll or two! The other thing was the ratchet throttle which masks the end stop, but after a rather speedy go around it was sorted. Throw dropped by 75% and the re-maiden was very pleasant. Note to one's self if ever using someone else's TX, try everything out before going live!

 

Another occasion was to fly a very nice foam eflite extra (had flown it before) but this time it was left in "safe" mode...now having never flown a model with safe it was a hole new experience rolling right and then it automatically levelling...compounded by the limit on bank angle!. Note to self, check with owner what flight mode its been left in be it gyro or safe.

 

PS I have been doing quite a lot of hand launching of models in safe and it is really useful...but you do have to get your head around the holding the stick over and it only having a limited bank/pitch angle...but if it gets a pig off the deck reliably its worth it  

 

PPS could no possible mention connecting an aileron servo connector the wrong way around...flying the model an wondering why the roll rate was so slow. Adjusted the rates on the TX and next flight, blow me only one aileron working on the preflight check. Best bit was the servo was powered and centered so didn't flap about on the previous flight. 

[David Davis]

I flew my Seagull Boomerang trainer yesterday with my mate, a trainee pilot on the buddy box. The first flight was unremarkable but part way through the second flight the engine, a Thunder Tiger 40 PRO fitted with an OS carburetter, suddenly cut. I landed and the engine started up straight away. I leaned off the slow running jet a little and took off, giving my trainee control as soon as the model was at a safe height. The same thing happened. I glided down to a landing and resolved to replace the glow plug, an OS no.8. Then I discovered the problem. The glow plug was loose! I replaced it with a new one anyway but the old plug would probably have worked if it had been tightened up enough! 

[Engine Doctor]

Similar thing for me with one of the foam buzzards. I was given the model as previous owner couldn't get it to fly properly. I set my gear up with high and low rates and went to the field. I launched it on the high rate setting and went soaring around looking for thermals and some buzzards that live in some nearby trees. Great day and very amusing seeing the local buzzards circling above my foamy.

Next time I took it to the field , some weeks later I launched it and it climbed away only for me to find I had virtually no control !  It spent the next two nights three fields away sitting on an earth bank . A friend found it using his drone  , no damage apart from som mice nibbles on the wing and a dead battery. So when sorted took it up again haveing done checks and trying the rates etc but at low level and found still virtually no 4esponce to inputs .Then I noticed the rates switch was on low. A flick of the switch and it flew well again. I fly some models like this and my diesel models on a old tx that has one switch for rates. Had it been on my FF9 then I think it would have clicked that it was rated problem. 

Even on the low rate  setting there was a lot of movement ofsurfaces ,but just not enough . The high setting gave just a small increase in aileron but it was all that it needed to fly well.

 Message to self :   Perhaps a small aid memoir inside model for throws  ie Ail high. Ele low etc if not flown regularly would be a good idea 💡 

[Mike Etheridge 1]

I took my ancient Twinstar 2 to Epsom Downs to fly a few weeks back as part of the celebration of 100 years of model flying. It was raining so there was an urgency to get the planes off the ground so I did not make the full checks that I would do normally such as a range check. Inside the cockpit of the plane I had marked the location of the front of the very heavy NIMH flight battery, but the mark had disappeared so the battery finished up slightly too far back. The plane was launched and it was immediately obvious it was stalling so I put in a bit of down elevator trim and I managed a rather slow flight and a reasonable landing. Following this trip I returned to the Downs on 'Cloud tramp' day with the Twinstar and had enough time for a flight or two. I remembered the battery issue and fitted the battery further forward. I remembered also the elevator adjustment i had made and then managed to forget it prior to the plane's launch. The result was a bloody awful initial flight with the plane diving and almost out of control but with the help of Roger M who operated the elevator and aileron trims whilst I moved the sticks the plane survived and flew normally. This illustrated to me how complacency and lack of checks can affect a model plane even one as simple as the Twinstar 2 that I have flown for 16 years.    

[Frank Skilbeck]

Recently test flew a Taube Rumpler with functioning wing warping, first attempts were unsuccessful as we didn't have enough elevator movement, back at the field and with more elevator movement we were away, it seemed to be flying quite nicely, even did a few low passes for photos. Come to land it, fine all the way to about 3 ft above the runway, cut the throttle and it immediately dived in. Moral - should have done a power off stall test at a safe height.

[Rich Griff]

RAF valley hawk crashed on take off, fatality if I remember right, cause, reversed ailerons.....

[Keith Billinge]

Our Club Secretary decided a 'safety check' was in order, the other day.

Before anybody could fly we each had to demonstrate our model's failsafe condition, by cracking open the throttle slightly then turning off the transmitter to simulate signal loss.

1 or 2 models were found to go straight to full throttle during the test.

Maybe we have become a little complacent. This was a good wake-up call to double check something so fundamental to safety.

 

About 90% of our club members fly Spektrum and many just assumed that the failsafe was automatically set when binding a Spektrum RX.

 

I thought it was a good exercise

 

KB

 

[GrumpyGnome]

I suspect all our ic fliers are OK, but would not be hugely surprised if some leccy planes needed attention.. . Only 'cos leccy seems to be more 'plug and play'.

 

Before anyone piles in, I'm not knocking electric planes - I have a few dozen!

[PatMc]

2 hours ago, Keith Billinge said:

Our Club Secretary decided a 'safety check' was in order, the other day.

Before anybody could fly we each had to demonstrate our model's failsafe condition, by cracking open the throttle slightly then turning off the transmitter to simulate signal loss.

1 or 2 models were found to go straight to full throttle during the test.

Maybe we have become a little complacent. This was a good wake-up call to double check something so fundamental to safety.

 

About 90% of our club members fly Spektrum and many just assumed that the failsafe was automatically set when binding a Spektrum RX.

 

I thought it was a good exercise

 

KB

 

You're club secretary has the authority to demand a "safety check" ? 🤨

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Sounds like it. 
 

Looking from an outsider’s position, I suspect that the way something like this was handled made it seem as either a useful exercise or an unreasonable dictatorial demand!

 

Club members will also have an influence - one or two members reacting badly to such a request can colour the atmosphere quickly and result in friction. 
 

Can a club secretary “demand” such action?  It does depend on the club’s constitution - my own empowers the committee to introduce new rules (which are ratified at the next AGM - or EGM should one be called relating to the new rule) so it’s entirely feasible that we could make such a decision. 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

4 minutes ago, PatMc said:

You're club secretary has the authority to demand a "safety check" ? 🤨

Why not, I am the "safety and runway chef" (Lol ) If someone is doing something dodgy it's my responsibility.

When I am at the club, I stay next to pilot on their first flight, although I do most first flights and if I am satisfied with it's flying and trim I pass it over to it's owner

and stay with them till he has landed.

 

 Safety first !

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Why do you care what other clubs do ? Mans title was Secretary, he could well be a respected member who contributes to his clubs well being in many ways, he also turned up some unsafe practise, which he may well have expected and was the whole point of the checks, and may well have carried the process out in a manner his members had no issue with, admittedley he neglected to consider what someone on a forum might think.

[Rich Griff]

Well done that man, bringing to his clubs members ( and this forum membership ) attention a safety issue.

 

Fail safe rather than fail danger...

 

We all need reminding from time to time...

 

Slight thread drift but do eleccy fliers do a servo glitch test at full throttle etc. Preflight ?

 

I know I would.

 

Should a pre flight range test also be done at full throttle as well ?

 

Just asking...

[Don Fry]

I thought that. I AM PRETTY SURE, all my models are Failsafe safe. I am sure I checked when I finished the build. But, when did I check?

Note to self, next preflight, or charge in the workshop,  check. List created. Thank you..

 

edit, I used to be a Secretary in another sport. What is the point of appointing an effective MD, if they don’t run the club. 
Don’t like the management team, as I recall, negotiate, or, if rebuffed, the AGM, is your friend. Or even, join the committee. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Don Fry

[Philip Lewis 3]

2 hours ago, Rich Griff said:

Do eleccy fliers do a servo glitch test at full throttle etc. Preflight ?

 

 

Do a what? Why?

[Frank Skilbeck]

2 minutes ago, Philip Lewis 3 said:

Do a what? Why?

I think what he meant was do they power up on a range check.

 

As for failsafe, if I am asked to maiden a new model or help with a range check then I get the failsafe checked.

 

While failsafe events are very rare the last time we had an actual failsafe at our club was with a faulty transmitter (and before you ask Futaba) around 6-7 years ago when a model went out of range at around 150m, the failsafe kicked in and shut the throttle so stopped a flyaway and the model survived to fly another day. So getting members to check their failsafe is much better than filling in an incident report to the CAA.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

10 minutes ago, Philip Lewis 3 said:

Do a what? Why?

I do on new models it's better if it shakes itself to bits or makes magic smoke on the ground than in the air and at the same time it also tests the battery.

 

 

 Failsafe on a Futaba, how and where were the antenna's placed ?

Edited August 31, 2022 by Paul De Tourtoulon