Fire caused by show fireworks

[mightypeesh]

Barton Point model show fire

[mightypeesh]

Forgot the pic.....        

[Nik Harrison]

I agree.  Organisers should be taken to task.

[Ron Gray]

Same thing happened, to a lesser extent, at Wings and Wheels. I would love to see their risk assessment!

[kevin b]

Not just the organisers.

All the H&S people on site as well as the model fliers and nobody had the common sense to raise concerns ?

It is stupidity like this that gets model flying sites closed down.

Technically it was whoever was in charge of the flight line who is to blame for allowing the models involved to fly, considering the conditions.

Don't they take any notice of the national news and weather forecasters ? Let alone the state of the local environment.

This event is likely to have repercussions for us all. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by kevin b

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Post deleted - whatever we think of the wisdom of allowing the event there’s no excuse for bad language and insults. 

[Nigel R]

"whoops"

 

[Jon H]

Fire cover for model shows does seem to be an issue more and more.

 

But, i would argue that the fireworks were not a problem had adequate fire cover been available. Pilots could also have flown slightly higher to allow embers to burn out before coming to earth to also help minimise the risk, and additional fire spotters could have been deployed etc. 

 

This incident could have easily come from a crashed model, be it petrol, turbine, electric or even a dropped cigarette in the carpark. This is to say nothing of the fire risk at the campsite after the show. The lack of fire cover and action plan to cover what to do if one starts is more of a red flag in my mind than the fireworks themselves. 

 

Any number of precautions could have allowed the show to continue and cover the bases on risk. Stopping the fireworks aspect would have prevented this specific incident, but it would not have guarded against other fire sources.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jon - Laser Engines

[extra slim]

Not good when our hobby could be nominated in the darwin awards.. !! I'm honestly gob smacked 

[Brian Sweeting 1]

 

Has the organisers been in the beer tent?

Edited July 18, 2022 by Martin Harris - Moderator
Removed unjustifiable statement. The question can stand but we shouldn't draw any conclusions regarding their competence.

[Zflyer]

We are all wise after an event. Whilst it was very unfortunate too allow it bolster the anti's to model flying it is in the wider view ridiculous. I think by the end of the next 72 hours we will hear of other such fires and few if any will be connected to model flying. Indeed in previous years we have seen fires being started deliberately.

But if it does make us think before flying that is no bad thing

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Gents and ladies - We're quite entitled to express opinions but we have to bear in mind that we're not in full possession of the facts, despite some rather worrying video footage that's been posted.

 

Please refrain from making judgemental and possibly libellous comments while feeling free to post any useful thoughts and advice to mitigate the consequences of this or other similar incidents.

[Jon H]

I just watched the videos for the first time and i am changing my stance. If this was caused by the sort of fireworks that leave a trail of sparks behind the model (as i expected to see) then it would have been a very different situation and my initial comments reflected this. As it was, they are using projectile type fireworks that clearly have enough range to hit members of the crowd and are obviously shooting fire into the ground. Not impressive. Especially as the show seemed to go on even though it was clear several fires had already started. 

 

While my earlier points about fire control are still valid, they really should be taken to task regarding the type of firework they were using. 

[Engine Doctor]

2 hours ago, Jon - Laser Engines said:

Fire cover for model shows does seem to be an issue more and more.

 

But, i would argue that the fireworks were not a problem had adequate fire cover been available. Pilots could also have flown slightly higher to allow embers to burn out before coming to earth to also help minimise the risk, and additional fire spotters could have been deployed etc. 

 

This incident could have easily come from a crashed model, be it petrol, turbine, electric or even a dropped cigarette in the carpark. This is to say nothing of the fire risk at the campsite after the show. The lack of fire cover and action plan to cover what to do if one starts is more of a red flag in my mind than the fireworks themselves. 

 

Any number of precautions could have allowed the show to continue and cover the bases on risk. Stopping the fireworks aspect would have prevented this specific incident, but it would not have guarded against other fire sources.

 

 

John had you seen the site you would i think have a tottaly different view .A cub scout would have spotted the risk. Not a blade of green in sight but acres of knee high hay standing all around the flying field.

The only safe option was "No fireworks of any description.

Have you ever attended a grass fire with  standing hay  and a good breeze ? I suspect not .  Two of my work colleagues had heart attacks fighting these type of fires as they are very hard work (expletive describes it better but......) No fire fighting plan could have stopped this given the conditions and using any type of firework or incendiary was going to cause a fire in that situation.

Other fire sources were immeasurably lower risk and as you say could be tackled if planned for.  This  however was like looking for a gas leak using a lighter and firing what looked like roman candles  at the ground could and could only have one outcome, multiple seats of fire. Putting them all out was a not going to happen .

Now the press and social media  have got hold if it how many flying fields will our hobby loose due to over reactive landlords ?

The only good thing is that fortunately no persons were injured.

Just read your last post posted while I was typing.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Engine Doctor

[Nigel R]

Just watched the video. 

 

Fools, foolish fools... Is my polite take. 

[kevin b]

I was under the impression that firing an explosive projectile from an unmanned (or manned) flying vehicle is illegal in this country.

At the very least each flier should have had a firearms license.

Just look at the rules and regulations professional firework display companies have to follow.

I think it might be an idea for the pilots to get some legal advice. They are likely to need it.

[Don Fry]

3 hours ago, Jon - Laser Engines said:

I just watched the videos for the first time and i am changing my stance. If this was caused by the sort of fireworks that leave a trail of sparks behind the model (as i expected to see) then it would have been a very different situation and my initial comments reflected this. As it was, they are using projectile type fireworks that clearly have enough range to hit members of the crowd and are obviously shooting fire into the ground. Not impressive. Especially as the show seemed to go on even though it was clear several fires had already started. 

 

While my earlier points about fire control are still valid, they really should be taken to task regarding the type of firework they were using. 

Sorry John, still wrong. 
Can’t accept an obvious risk, and then mitigate it with a few blokes with buckets and hoses. If the organizers had shipped in the resources wasted on sorting the fire out, on standby, perhaps. And modern fire training says, fires that don’t risk injury do not warrant risk of injury putting them out. 
Ditto, this week, MOD doing live fire exercises onto cut hay fields.

[PeterF]

The BMFA Article 16 authorisation states

 

9. Dropping of Articles
The new regulations prohibit the dropping of any materials from a model aircraft, but our Authorisation exempts us from this requirement subject to the following condition - The remote pilot must not cause or permit any article or animal to be dropped from an unmanned aircraft so as to endanger persons or property.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

4 minutes ago, PeterF said:

The BMFA Article 16 authorisation states

 

9. Dropping of Articles
The new regulations prohibit the dropping of any materials from a model aircraft, but our Authorisation exempts us from this requirement subject to the following condition - The remote pilot must not cause or permit any article or animal to be dropped from an unmanned aircraft so as to endanger persons or property.

So no parachutes,  plastic bombs, dropping sweets or piggy backing gliders ?.

[J D 8]

   Little parachute soldiers, plastic bombs, sweets or piggy back gliders are not going to endanger persons or property.

[PeterF]

5 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

So no parachutes,  plastic bombs, dropping sweets or piggy backing gliders ?.

You can drop these under the BMFA authorisation as long as you do not endanger people or property. The clause is quite clear in this respect. Outwith the BMFA authorisation, the CAA rules prohibit the dropping of articles completely.

[Jon H]

50 minutes ago, Don Fry said:

Sorry John, still wrong. 
Can’t accept an obvious risk, and then mitigate it with a few blokes with buckets and hoses. If the organizers had shipped in the resources wasted on sorting the fire out, on standby, perhaps. And modern fire training says, fires that don’t risk injury do not warrant risk of injury putting them out. 
Ditto, this week, MOD doing live fire exercises onto cut hay fields.

 

Not sure i follow.

 

Had they been using the type of firework i thought they were and it just left a trail of sparks then going ahead with the firework show is completely understandable. Doing it with the type they had however was not. This is one issue in itself that needs to be investigated and there is in my view no excuse for using projectile type fireworks. 

 

But as a separate issue, their fire coverage was clearly insufficient to deal with any fire caused by a firework or model accident. If a turbine model had gone in and exploded, or an electric model lipo caught fire after a crash, there is no way the coverage they had on hand would have been able to deal with that either. 

 

The issues are separate even if they conspired together to cause the problem. Its the swiss cheese model they talk about in full size aviation accidents. 

 

But i think we are saying the same thing in that a handful of buckets is not enough fire protection for a model show and some sort of appliance should be on hand. This is what i meant by adequate fire protection. 

[kevin b]

From my experience the Fire Brigade are more than happy to attend shows.

It gives them something to do if they are not called out. they get to show off their shiny toys and are able to walk around looking macho.

It also gives them an opportunity to get their charity collection bucket out.

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

We really don't need to be shooting ourselves in the foot, with this kind of publicity.

[PatMc]

I wonder if the club were insured for the show.