Pete Knight Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Hi All Recently a club member of the Marston Green Model Flying Club (located close to BHX airport) notified the committee of a recent Notam that would come into force 22 July, on inspection not only did the restriction to fly cover our flying field but several other clubs in the central midlands area, the reason for the Notam ? Commonwealth Games. I have tried without success to get a response from the BMFA and Andy Symons. We have spent many hours trying to establish if our club can register with the Police and the CAA to receive Notam's and unfortunately we have come up with a blank. So unless you have an avid plane spotter or a pilot in your club it would seem you have to check the CAA website regularly. If the CAA are charging flyers to fly in a responsible way then I would suggest they make the effort to contact the BMFA in a timely manner with Notam notifications. Birmingham-Commonwealth-Games-Airspace-Restrictions.pdf BRIEFING_SHEET_RESTRICTION_OF_FLYING_REGULATIONS_XXII_COMMONWEALTH_GAMES_22_JULY-V1.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Knight Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Pete Knight said: Hi All Recently a club member of the Marston Green Model Flying Club (located close to BHX airport) notified the committee of a recent Notam that would come into force 22 July, on inspection not only did the restriction to fly cover our flying field but several other clubs in the central midlands area, the reason for the Notam ? Commonwealth Games. I have tried without success to get a response from the BMFA and Andy Symons. We have spent many hours trying to establish if our club can register with the Police and the CAA to receive Notam's and unfortunately we have come up with a blank. So unless you have an avid plane spotter or a pilot in your club it would seem you have to check the CAA website regularly. If the CAA are charging flyers to fly in a responsible way then I would suggest they make the effort to contact the BMFA in a timely manner with Notam notifications. Birmingham-Commonwealth-Games-Airspace-Restrictions.pdf 415.66 kB · 4 downloads BRIEFING_SHEET_RESTRICTION_OF_FLYING_REGULATIONS_XXII_COMMONWEALTH_GAMES_22_JULY-V1.pdf 3.53 MB · 5 downloads Further to my earlier post, I have received from Andy. Hi Peter Struggling to keep cool at the moment, I hope you are managing though. At the moment no flying of any unmanned aircraft, as stated on the briefing sheet, can take place between the stated dates and times without permission from West Midlands Police. I am awaiting for a response from the Police, there is precedent from CoP26 last year in Glasgow to permit as much activity as reasonably possible. However I am aware of a refusal of permission for one club so far. If it is possible to get permission for club activities to take place there is still a problem as there is signal jamming in place that may affect UAS control. Once I have a definitive response from West Midlands Police I will be contacting all affected clubs. Best Regards Andy Symons Club Support Officer Andy also pointed me to Skywise.caa.co.uk where you can register for latest updates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 You can also register here Notaminfo and get automatic updates for your chosen area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Pete I've also spotted a NOTAM B1639/22 covering RF jamming activity. I'm not versed in interpreting these but it appears to say that RF jamming could cover a radius of 20nm of Birmingham. FROM: 22 Jul 2022 06:00 GMT (07:00 BST) TO: 09 Aug 2022 23:00 GMT (10 Aug 00:00 BST) SCHEDULE: 0600-2300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Mack Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 files from NATS UK | Briefing Sheets (ead-it.com) BRIEFING_SHEET_RESTRICTION_OF_FLYING_REGULATIONS_XXII_COMMONWEALTH_GAMES_22_JULY-V1.pdf BRIEFING_SHEET_COMMONWEALTH_GAMES.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Ironic isn't it. One sporting and hobby activity is stopped so that others can undertake theirs. Sadly, we seem to be the poor relation be it planning permission, noise, cessation of activities for one reason or another. Yet the likes of football, cricket, cycling and athletics, even on an amateur basis, get vast sums of public money and acceptance from local authorities and the public at large. If only we could change that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 A few elderly gents in a field playing with toy planes is always going to lose out to hundreds of athletes and tens of thousands of spectators as a terrorist target, which I suppose this NOTAM is based on....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said: A few elderly gents in a field playing with toy planes is always going to lose out to hundreds of athletes and tens of thousands of spectators as a terrorist target, which I suppose this NOTAM is based on....... It could be argued that a few young gents playing with javelins is no different. Most participants are amateur and whilst the numbers are higher, the principle is the same. The issue must be us, we must be so minor and insignificant that nobody outside our group gives us a second look. Even showing dogs (which I've had some involvement in) gets a week long slot on primetime TV. The perception of "a few elderly gents playing with toy planes" is perhaps the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Local authorities produce playing pitch and sports strategies. They pay consultants to assess the usage and quantity of sports facilities and sites are leased to sports clubs, often for minimal fees, which are usually passed on to the end users. No doubt our hobby doesn't feature much. I guess it comes down to demand, perception and popularity. Hopefully somehow it can change for the better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 I’d like to see the justification for stopping model flying at an established site and the reasons why this impedes the policing of the games, maybe many miles away rather than a simple statement from the police telling us that it was for the greater good and not to bother asking for permission as they won’t even consider the circumstances. If the technology is as advanced as suggested in the communication then you would think it fairly simple to discount activity limited to a reasonable radius of an approved site. It seems to be the thin end of a wedge which could lead to bans in the future for lesser events so perhaps the BMFA would consider challenging this decision? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Stephenson Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 They claim they will have drone detection teams out and about during the no-fly period but how exactly will they detect a model aircraft that has no active transmission i.e. telemetry or camera Tx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 6 hours ago, Chris Berry said: It could be argued that a few young gents playing with javelins is no different. Most participants are amateur and whilst the numbers are higher, the principle is the same. The issue must be us, we must be so minor and insignificant that nobody outside our group gives us a second look. Even showing dogs (which I've had some involvement in) gets a week long slot on primetime TV. The perception of "a few elderly gents playing with toy planes" is perhaps the issue. It's hundreds if athletes and tens of thousands of spectators..... but I take your points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) It's outrageous to have such swingeing restrictions on model flying and a good reason why this hobby should have taken the sensible position of distancing itself from the drone hobby when that began to emerge. Model aeroplanes are not drones, have been around for decades and the notion that legitimate model aeroplane operation is any sort of tangible terrorist threat is not well founded. In courting the supposed huge influx of drone flyers into the BMFA we have effectively ensured that we are all tarred with the same brush, even in the eyes of an uninformed public. Edited July 21, 2022 by leccyflyer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyBird Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 I assume the email from BMFA has been received. Not the news we wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Watkins Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) Remember Christmas 2018 Britain sent troops to its second-biggest airport after an unprecedented attempt to cripple Christmas travel with large drones forced all flights to be cancelled on Thursday. These devices then started to appear from 2019 in significant places, jammers. Edited July 21, 2022 by Denis Watkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Christy Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Looking at the size of the antennas of those jammers, I would guess that they are aimed at the higher frequencies (2.4 GHz, etc). Glad I've still got my old 35 MHz gear...... 😀 -- Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin b Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) Just wait until they start the U.K. Drone Super Highway. Do you think Amazon et al will agree being told they can't fly ? Edited July 21, 2022 by kevin b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul De Tourtoulon Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 9 hours ago, Chris Berry said: It could be argued that a few young gents playing with javelins is no different. That would be fun, flying planes on the javelin field dodging the spears,,,😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zflyer Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 As it happens the club I fly with falls just outside the no fly zone. The restrictions would apply regardless of the drone implication. The part that should be found 'annoying' is the late notification, though I doubt any appeals would have been considered in any event. How many sites does it affect, I suspect not many given the conurbation it covers. Another consideration is how many days during the restrictive period would the weather be good enough to fly ? It isn't great, I understand and I don't like it much like everyone else but the broader picture needs to be taken into consideration. AS for the Super Highway I look forward to a drone delivering in my street with its criss crossed telephone lines, large bushes and shrubs. As an aside anyone subject to the restriction looking to fly elsewhere, if you want to PM me I will do my best to see if we can accommodate you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottenRow Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 The following excerpt from West Midlands Police’s reply to the BMFA when it applied for an exemption from the restrictions for local clubs pretty much sums up the situation that model fliers find themselves in today… We then have to consider the necessity of the application, and implications should the proposed activity not take place. As such, whilst applications are welcome, I can state that any recreational or hobbyist activity will be declined, and this applies to both manned and unmanned aerial activities. Model fliers have been pushed into a corner into which we can only be squeezed more tightly. Allowing local police forces such as WMP to make these decisions on a subject about which that they have little experience or knowledge, and to make a blanket ‘no’ decision with regard to recreational and hobbyist activities cannot be fair or right. For them to give a negative answer such as that which they gave to the BMFA was just the easy option. Perhaps all of those affected in the West Midlands should contact their Police and Crime Commissioner. I wonder what the BMFA’s thoughts would have been if the NOTAM had extended to cover Buckminster… a National Flying Centre where flying is banned! Not yet perhaps but… Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, RottenRow said: The following excerpt from West Midlands Police’s reply to the BMFA when it applied for an exemption from the restrictions for local clubs pretty much sums up the situation that model fliers find themselves in today… We then have to consider the necessity of the application, and implications should the proposed activity not take place. As such, whilst applications are welcome, I can state that any recreational or hobbyist activity will be declined, and this applies to both manned and unmanned aerial activities. Model fliers have been pushed into a corner into which we can only be squeezed more tightly. Allowing local police forces such as WMP to make these decisions on a subject about which that they have little experience or knowledge, and to make a blanket ‘no’ decision with regard to recreational and hobbyist activities cannot be fair or right. For them to give a negative answer such as that which they gave to the BMFA was just the easy option. Perhaps all of those affected in the West Midlands should contact their Police and Crime Commissioner. I wonder what the BMFA’s thoughts would have been if the NOTAM had extended to cover Buckminster… a National Flying Centre where flying is banned! Not yet perhaps but… Brian. The various events in different locations are phased. For example the Ricoh in coventry is from 29th-6th. So a rolling NOTAM would have been better than a blanket for 3 weeks. Presumably too much like hard work for the Police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Fraser Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Presumably other surface RC modellers such as yacht and car operator's could be affected if they are going to use RF jamming equipment? Proof that the world is going mad - "Please note that at the present time the restriction also includes control line flying" Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottenRow Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Let’s imagine for a moment that drones had never been invented. The CAA and police would not have even thought about model aircraft flying being a security issue for the games, which it isn’t. We have now been ‘lumped together’ with drone fliers (many of whom I am sure also fly within all of the relevant guidelines) and now we are regarded as a possible security issue in the same vein as a minority of drone fliers might me. With regard to the jamming equipment that has apparently been installed in certain locations, as perfectly legitimate users of the 2.4GHz band, should we not, via the BMFA, be informed of the locations and effective range of these? Wouldn’t a model aircraft, or drone, being flown safely, possibly fall uncontrolled from the sky if a signal from one of these jammers was received, quite possibly causing more of a hazard than the perceived problem in the first place? The control line ban is madness, as pointed out by Marty. Perhaps the heat of this week has got to some people’s heads… Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilC57 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 13 hours ago, Chris Berry said: Ironic isn't it. One sporting and hobby activity is stopped so that others can undertake theirs. Sadly, we seem to be the poor relation be it planning permission, noise, cessation of activities for one reason or another. Yet the likes of football, cricket, cycling and athletics, even on an amateur basis, get vast sums of public money and acceptance from local authorities and the public at large. If only we could change that. It’s not just us. How many times have we seen TV news (particularly on the BBC) postponed because they’re covering a sporting event such as tennis or football. We’re not all sport mad, but it seems the rest of us have to make way for those who are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Berry Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, RottenRow said: Let’s imagine for a moment that drones had never been invented. The CAA and police would not have even thought about model aircraft flying being a security issue for the games, which it isn’t. We have now been ‘lumped together’ with drone fliers (many of whom I am sure also fly within all of the relevant guidelines) and now we are regarded as a possible security issue in the same vein as a minority of drone fliers might me. With regard to the jamming equipment that has apparently been installed in certain locations, as perfectly legitimate users of the 2.4GHz band, should we not, via the BMFA, be informed of the locations and effective range of these? Wouldn’t a model aircraft, or drone, being flown safely, possibly fall uncontrolled from the sky if a signal from one of these jammers was received, quite possibly causing more of a hazard than the perceived problem in the first place? The control line ban is madness, as pointed out by Marty. Perhaps the heat of this week has got to some people’s heads… Brian. The location of these devices will never be disclosed but safe to say they are directional and able to be rapidly deployed across the FRZ area. They are not large structures like phone masts but much smaller devices indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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