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Why Do Some Clubs Have Joining Fees For New Members And Returnees?


David Davis 2
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Join our club and you'll pay a £140 one-off joining fee so with BMFA and the normal subscription the sum comes to almost £250. Very rarely get any reaction from prospective members when they see what they're getting for their money. The curse of running a club on a shoestring and dickering  over a few rotten pennies here and there has kept the hobby back for far too long IMHO. Fly on a rough bit of old pasture that may well be unusable in winter etc with absolutely no facilities and yes, maybe a few quid a year will cover it. Have a decent and welcoming flying site, able to cater for all models all year round and  more akin to to what one might find in the full size world of private club aviation, then you'll need to be far more realistic. People will pay a fair price if they feel that they're getting value for money.

Edited by Cuban8
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I find this very interesting. My annual club fees in central France are 64€ or about £54. This includes insurance with the French eqivalent of the BMFA. We have a tarmac runway, running water, 12V electric lighting, a WC discharging into a new septic tank and a solar panel for charging LiPos. We have installed an electric ring main which we connect up to a generator when needed. We receive a couple of grants from various local authorities amounting to 650€ each year.

 

However, we derive most of our income from the sale of drink! We have a selection of alcoholic and soft drinks which may be purchased at 1€ a time. A yellow sheet is kept in the club hut with everyone's name on it and when anybody buys a drink or a round, he records how many drinks he's bought. This is totted up at the end of every month and members pay the treasurer at the beginning of the following month.

 

Combining model flying with alcohol is not a good idea but they do things differently in France. It would not have been allowed at my last club in England. There we flew from eleven am to four pm, then we went down the pub!

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15 minutes ago, David Davis said:

I find this very interesting. My annual club fees in central France are 64€ or about £54. This includes insurance with the French eqivalent of the BMFA. We have a tarmac runway, running water, 12V electric lighting, a WC discharging into a new septic tank and a solar panel for charging LiPos. We have installed an electric ring main which we connect up to a generator when needed. We receive a couple of grants from various local authorities amounting to 650€ each year.

 

However, we derive most of our income from the sale of drink! We have a selection of alcoholic and soft drinks which may be purchased at 1€ a time. A yellow sheet is kept in the club hut with everyone's name on it and when anybody buys a drink or a round, he records how many drinks he's bought. This is totted up at the end of every month and members pay the treasurer at the beginning of the following month.

 

Combining model flying with alcohol is not a good idea but they do things differently in France. It would not have been allowed at my last club in England. There we flew from eleven am to four pm, then we went down the pub!

Sounds like our club, 1€ the drink and on club days and working days on the field, the drinks and appetiser drinks ( whisky etc)  are free also on our open inter-club days.

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HI DD. I could just imagine our local councils giving us grants for club ! 

Many years ago we tried to get funding for a dissabled portaloo but the hoops we had to jump through made it impossible to achieve. 

And your lucky not to have the mindless idiots who trash your facilities whenever they get bored. We regularly get vandalised here in the SE.

 

Good luck 

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3 hours ago, Engine Doctor said:

HI DD. I could just imagine our local councils giving us grants for club ! 

Many years ago we tried to get funding for a dissabled portaloo but the hoops we had to jump through made it impossible to achieve. 

And your lucky not to have the mindless idiots who trash your facilities whenever they get bored. We regularly get vandalised here in the SE.

 

Good luck 

 

We were burgled twice in the first two years of my membership but since then we've added shutters, bars and a steel door to our club hut and so far no-one has got through those.

 

As for the grants, a few years ago the local mayor was hosting a meeting of all of the mayors in the Department of La Creuse which is the equivalent of an English county. This meeting included the Mayor of Mayors and we were asked to put on a flying display. Instead of being some dour local government officer, the Mayor of Mayors was an attractive lady perhaps no longer in the very first flower of youth, picture below. While everybody else was flying about doing fancy aerobatics, I plodded about the sky with my Junior 60. I walked over to the lady explained how the transmitter worked and handed it to her. She made the usual beginner's mistake of moving the sticks too much. Once I'd convinced her to make only slight movements she continued to fly the model for several minutes without any input from me. We gave her a certificate in the evening. We do this to all beginners who have a go on the sticks!

 

Since then we have received 150€ each year from the Department!

Maire des Maires.jpg

Junior 60 in Flight.jpg

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our club is based on one of those bits of scrub land , not fit for anything so the farmer says ,and lets us have it virtually for free to do what we like . "We" are a very very small group  of mainly elderly folk who have been flying together for 50 years or so , We have no facilities  or ameanities or financial burdens , just the petrol for the mowers ,and   just a small patch on which we can fly happily all year round and at any time  for the odd pint or two .

our club motto  Is to have fun !! and we still do !

 

cheers

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It always amazes me how some people think they have an automatic right to join a club, especially when they are already members of another club.

We vet prospective members. We have a joining fee and have a waiting list.

We never turn away people who are new to our hobby and want to learn to fly.

If a prospective member does not like how the club operates then they are not the sort members we would probably want and are welcome to go else where. 

Edited by The Bush
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1 hour ago, The Bush said:

It always amazes me how some people think they have an automatic right to join a club, especially when they are already members of another club.

We vet prospective members. We have a joining fee and have a waiting list.

We never turn away people who are new to our hobby and want to learn to fly.

If a prospective member does not like how the club operates then they are not the sort members we would probably want and are welcome to go else where. 

 

Hmm, sounds really welcoming! 

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We don't have a joining fee at all.  We have no club house to maintain and are not allowed to put anything 'permanent' on the field.  Our only expenses are annual field rent (which I personally feel is very high!),depreciation on the mower and trailer, servicing the mower, petrol for the mower.  The only real investment has been time to prepare, and maintain, our beautiful runway. 

 

We welcome everyone, irrespective of experience, or how many clubs they belong to.  If anyone  does not like how the club is run, they are welcome to raise matters at the AGM, and become part of the committee.  We certainly wouldn't refuse membership if anyone expressed a desire to change anything......

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1 hour ago, The Bush said:

It always amazes me how some people think they have an automatic right to join a club, especially when they are already members of another club.

We vet prospective members. We have a joining fee and have a waiting list.

We never turn away people who are new to our hobby and want to learn to fly.

If a prospective member does not like how the club operates then they are not the sort members we would probably want and are welcome to go else where. 

Do not feed the troll!

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I don’t think it’s for us to judge individual clubs’ policies. 
 

Joining fees are maybe a bit of an historic feature these days but where a club feels they are appropriate, why should a prospective member not see them as part of the overall package of fees, suitability, location, access etc. etc. to be considered when selecting a club?

 

Membership policies can evolve of course and should a club decide that joining fees are off-putting then they can - and should - revise the policy.  We do have a £50 joining fee and I’m yet to hear a prospective member comment adversely on it.  We have introduced a policy of asking anyone interested in joining to pop in to the field to meet us - not just as a form of informal vetting but to ensure that we can manage their expectations to avoid the situation of taking their money and them finding that facilities/training or even the club atmosphere aren’t as expected. 
 

The original question was “why do some clubs have joining fees” so I suppose the short answer is that it’s because it suits them!

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4 hours ago, Lima Hotel Foxtrot said:

Do not feed the troll!

I take it you have a lot off experience of running a club and virtually loosing a field because of one sour apple ruining it for every one else.

Having to  then  go to the farmer to  plead your case to keep your flying field

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I'm with the Bush !! We do vet prospective members but not in an official way , they can come and fly with us for free for a while  and if they like it , and we like them   , they stay and join ! If they dont like it we never see them again , kinda self regulating . In the last 5o years there have only been 2 non joiners and that was because in those days we were a little restricted on flying times and they could not use the site when they wanted to .( now there are no restrictions )   The farmer used to race Formula Ford and now races tractors so he loves noise and speed )!!

we have found that if a prospective member is keen and makes the effort of finding out about us, not that easy , he is usually the sort of guy we  welcome and would be an asset to the club .  

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On 03/08/2022 at 06:21, David Davis 2 said:

 

 

If our aim is to encourage new people into the hobby, why do we impose this additional cost on newcomers and returnees?

Well I don't think the average club member wants to encourage new people into the hobby!   Experienced club members know that flying fields in the south of England are disaappearing fast and the population is increasing fast too, so it's not very desirable to attract more flyers to fewer fields!    Most clubs want to kept the numbers down to give existing members flying time and minimise nuisance to neighbours.    It might be a different situation in other parts of Briitain or in France etc with less population and much more open space but in the south of England many clubs do not want new members!   

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2 hours ago, Neil Bushell said:

I take it you have a lot off experience of running a club and virtually loosing a field because of one sour apple ruining it for every one else.

Having to  then  go to the farmer to  plead your case to keep your flying field

Actually, I am the club chairman and we've had to tread very carefully more than once to retain permission to fly. So nerrrr! 😛

 

I make the light hearted troll comment because that was one post (the first and maybe only post) by someone who is immediately taking an aggressive stance against what other people have said and has zero information on their profile. 

 

In fact, now I think of it, "The Bush" is quite similar to "Neil Bushall..." probably a coincidence, but both profiles were created on the same day and you've only posted twice...

Edited by Lima Hotel Foxtrot
Wisdom of Solomon
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As I said earlier, a £50 joining fee was introduced to stabilise the membership. It would buy you a can of fuel and a couple of plugs. We always welcome new members who can take advantage of the excellent field and enjoy free tuition up to `A` standard on almost any day of the week . Before this they would probably have disappeared elsewhere or taken up golf or fishing.

We lost quite a few during Covid, putting extra financial strain on the core members. I would like to try other sites for certain models but the joining fees are usually far in excess of what we charge in order to get a good field.

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52 minutes ago, kc said:

Well I don't think the average club member wants to encourage new people into the hobby!   Experienced club members know that flying fields in the south of England are disaappearing fast and the population is increasing fast too, so it's not very desirable to attract more flyers to fewer fields!    Most clubs want to kept the numbers down to give existing members flying time and minimise nuisance to neighbours.    It might be a different situation in other parts of Briitain or in France etc with less population and much more open space but in the south of England many clubs do not want new members!   

 

I think there is an element of truth in that, coupled with the fact most people have busy lives and would prefer to fly themselves when they visit the field rather than teach others. Ultimately though it is probably a bit short sighted - as the demographic profile of most traditional clubs ages inexorably it seems to be getting harder and harder to fill positions and get maintenance done. Be careful what you wish for... 

Edited by MattyB
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Some guesswork going on ?

I've never met anyone who thought they'd a right to join our club, met many who asked if they could join, fair number of our members belong to more than one club, used to do the same myself, chance to fly in different surroundings with a different group of people is all I see, plus numerous clubs getting a financial lift.

 

Closed/limited memberships ? I can see the logic in that if you've external pressures and want to protect your club/field. Actions have consequences though, model shops, BMFA and our future need new members coming to the hobby.

 

Pressures in the South ? Yep, rest off the country has the same pressures believe it or not.

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35 minutes ago, MattyB said:

 

I think there is an element of truth in that, coupled with the fact most people have busy lives and would prefer to fly themselves when they visit the field rather than teach others. Ultimately though it is probably a bit short sighted - as the demographic profile of most traditional clubs ages inexorably it seems to be getting harder and harder to fill positions and get maintenance done. Be careful what you wish for... 

That's what's life is all about, there are people who will help others, people who won't and some that walk by and ignore what's going on and turning a blind eye,

Modelling for most is a passion of building, flying and teaching others also getting together for a chin-wag, as you say very short sighted, as we all need help one day or another.

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This may be a load of tosh, subject to my poor memory or I might be speaking out of my rear end but here goes.....

In the early 80's I was a member of a MFC by virtue of an introduction by a friend. After a year or so a couple of young men turned up requesting to join and was promptly told no by the Secretary. At this point they said something interesting, namely that the BMFA had secured the definition of model flying as a sport and that denying someone membership was against the 'Sport for all' motto of the Sports Council and that any funding by the Sports Council to the BMFA could be jeopardised if the incident were reported.

At this point the secretary was rude to them and they left.  Nothing transpired AFAIK....

Edited by Robert Cracknell
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I’m not keen on a joining fee personally but I can see that a charge in the region of say £20(ish!) wouldn’t be out of order - in my mind this covers the costs of them joining - possible key cutting, membership card, postage of documents as required (yes, now all done by email I’d say!). Large fees as mentioned above - say above £50-75 are prohibitive and just milking the situation in my opinion. If a club can’t exist without these then shouldn’t every members fees be raised by say a fiver? 
I appreciate that some clubs could have just set themselves up and the membership have had to put substantial sums of money in personally, and a joining fee is in effect ‘buying in’, but for the majority of established clubs I’m not sure this is applicable. 

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59 minutes ago, Ian Whittaker said:

I’m not keen on a joining fee personally but I can see that a charge in the region of say £20(ish!) wouldn’t be out of order - in my mind this covers the costs of them joining - possible key cutting, membership card, postage of documents as required (yes, now all done by email I’d say!). Large fees as mentioned above - say above £50-75 are prohibitive and just milking the situation in my opinion. If a club can’t exist without these then shouldn’t every members fees be raised by say a fiver? 
I appreciate that some clubs could have just set themselves up and the membership have had to put substantial sums of money in personally, and a joining fee is in effect ‘buying in’, but for the majority of established clubs I’m not sure this is applicable. 

I'm not going into details about the financial position of our club and what we are trying to achieve to raise the overall experience for members and indeed new flyers to the hobby. What |I will say is that It's certainly not "out of order, milking it or prohibitive" for us to charge £140 as a one-off contribution to the considerable sums that have been invested by the existing club members over many years via their subs that have been steadily increasing to give us the wherewithall to achieve something worthwhile and very much above the average UK club offering.  It's not an existential issue at all. We've had no complaints, far from it.

If your club has no interest in such a project for whatever reason or where a club's landlord will not permit anything more than cutting the grass and nothing much else then that's that.

 

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