Spares availability for Laser engines.

[Jon H]

Just a quick PSA. 

 

Due to the general shambles that is more or less everything globally at the moment i am up the creek with neither a paddle or a boat when it comes to valve springs. 

 

We get these made in the UK and the lead time is usually 3-4 weeks. Noticing i was getting a little low we have ordered more but have been quoted 16 weeks as a best case scenario as that is the lead time quoted by their supplier on the material needed to make the springs. Oh and they have doubled in price too, which is just great. 

 

The upshot of this is i will be rationing my remaining supply to try and finish new engines. This means i will not be accepting any more orders for valve springs, carbs or needle valves (the valve spring is common to the needle valve) as a spare part and will also be unable to offer engine servicing unless the customer is happy to stick with their current springs as these are normally replaced during a service. Orders all ready in hand will be fulfilled but no more will be accepted. 

 

If you have an engine with a broken valve spring or damaged carb then unfortunately it is going to be out of service until i am able to get more springs. 

 

I appreciate that this may be frustrating if your favourite model is out of action because of this, but holding valve springs as a spare and not selling a whole engine with them in it is not a financially viable option. I have to try and keep engine sales going and this is the only way to do that in the sort term. 

 

Sorry for the bad news. 

 

 

[Don Fry]

Tell it as it is.
I promise to be careful with mine.

[Jon H]

24 minutes ago, Don Fry said:

Tell it as it is.
I promise to be careful with mine.

 

Well i cant really sugar coat it so i might as well be straight with everyone. 

[kevin b]

It's ok trying to support U.K. manufacturing, but where can they get the raw materials from ?

[Don Fry]

The world has problems. Stuff needs everything you need to make it, or you have nothing but bits.  All in the same boat.
Can’t imagine that the recent changes to customs rules is going to make much difference to the UK, as opposed to the world, to the cost of making a spring. Even the doubling in price reported by Jon is not a UK problem. The world has problems.

I note, Jon is choosing to stick with a supplier. I also note, I have never had a quality control issue with Laser motors. He could, I dare say, source cheesium springs from somewhere, hoping they are not cheesium. 
I would say patience is a virtue.

[Jon H]

There are numerous factors combining to bring us to where we are. 

 

The following is not any sort of political statement, just the facts as i see them from my desk. 

 

Our spring supplier has to get their material from overseas and mostly from the EU. Why? we dont make stuff in the UK anymore. Access to the EU is now problematic for everyone as there are limits to imports (as in tonnage of steel per month etc) before additional fee's and taxes are applied.  it is more difficult to import things than before brexit and exporting is worse still. Another factor is covid. Yes its a well trodden excuse, but it has screwed up global logistics. Finally, Mr Putin's efforts in Mariupol wiped out their steel manufacturing and the blockades of exports from Ukraine are doubtless a factor as well, not to mention that the offensive material supplied to Ukraine needs to be replaced so manufacturing in that sector is up and further draining the limited resources. So that is the overall backstory as i see it. 

 

We will not buy anything from china. It would damage the credibility of the brand and we would probably suffer reliability issues so its a false economy anyway. 

We did try another supplier but they quoted 6 months and wouldnt supply anything less than about 50000 springs, so only 50 times our normal order quantity. Needless to say this was a non starter 

 

 

[Don Fry]

Puts my quality control issues with my drought stricken fruit to make redcurrant jam into perspective.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Maybe worth a look at making your own ?;

[Jon H]

1 hour ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

Maybe worth a look at making your own ?;

 

We are not a spring manufacturing company and do not have the tools. Even if we did, the required material is the problem as it has a 15 week lead time. 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

So piano wire is of no use then ?.

[Mike Mc]

What are the main causes of valve spring failure?

 

If I need to decrease the RPM a little, I can do that.

[Don Fry]

1 above, no. Wrong Young’s modulus.

2 why do you think that not wringing power out of a motor is wrong. You paid for the power, use it. See 1 above. Wrong metal.
Lads, I’m not Jon’s keeper, but I think you might leave engine building to him. It’s his job. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Don Fry
Expaination added.

[Chris Walby]

If its industrial electrical equipment then I have seen across the board significant drop in stock items and those that needed to be ordered go from 6 to 8 weeks to min 20 weeks after placement of order. IMO a number have obvious factors have conspired and the final "just in time" strategy thorough the supply chain has brought us to where we are. The idea that you don't need to hold stock (not you Jon) and you can just demand it from the distributor (who has done the same) to pull it from the supplier only works if there is more supply than demand (like the car industry). Now the boot is on the other foot and its time for the manufacturers of raw materials and parts to sell to the highest bidder.

 

As for valve springs, yeah they are all just the same....what a load of tosh. We  had 4 stroke methanol race engines and the push rod ones would rev out at about 8k at which point power dropped off and the valve gear started to "float" risking the piston hitting them. we also had single and twin over head cam versions which would rev higher but are more complex and weigh more so the advantage diminished. Worth pointing the cam timing was the same and set for useful power from 6k as its drive that was more useful than top end....until you get near the end of a long straight and someone has a spare 1 or 2k revs spare. My point is we picked up some special racing valve springs from the USA and there were two major benefits, firstly the engine would rev higher by about 2k with no other engine changes. Secondly racing engines need to be stripped and checked of with one of them is to check the valve springs have not relaxed pressure after the hammering racing had given them. All springs do this to some extend, but these USA springs did it far less and in fact they lasted much longer as a result. No idea what they were made of but I don't think you can just knock a set up yourself.

 

Jon, thanks for letting us know the situation with your suppliers and from my view things will not get any better for some considerable period unless we go into a recession (which brings its own problems!).

 

On the upside....any spare time for R&D on the engine side?

[Jon H]

2 hours ago, Mike Mc said:

What are the main causes of valve spring failure?

 

 

 

Rust is the main cause of failure in model engines. The rust pits the surface and this focuses the stresses in the material during use leading to fatigue cracking and eventual failure. Extreme RPM and age will clearly not help, but rust is the usual issue. 

 

When it comes to the material spec i have no idea what it is. We gave our requirement to the spring company and they choose the material spec, number of coils, etc as they have the expertise to make that determination. I gave them specs like the number of cycles per second, operating temperature, life expectancy and they did the rest. They should last more than 10 million valve openings which is in excess of 50 hours running or 334 flights at an average of 6000rpm. Most last longer, but this is the minimum spec.