CAA Registration

[Dai Fledermaus]

I've been away from this forum for a few years,  so forgive me if this subject has been covered previously. I did do a quick search,  but I couldn't find any reference to it. 

I know that it's a legal requirement for model flyers to register with the CAA, but where a club is affiliated to the BMFA,  is there any obligation for that club to ensure that its members are not only registered with the CAA but that their model aircraft carry the required ID?

[Alan Gorham_]

Absolutely not. It's the individual's responsibility and not the club officials.

[MattyB]

4 hours ago, Alan Gorham_ said:

Absolutely not. It's the individual's responsibility and not the club officials.

 

Agreed. The only recommendation to clubs from the national assocaitions is to state that in your Club rules so that those that join know it is there responsbility to comply. The BMFA has on numerous occasions emphasised that clubs do not need to be seen to actively enforce registration and the correct display of IDs, that is a job solely for the individual.

[Dai Fledermaus]

Thanks fellas, that's fairly definitive. 

[Cuban8]

We offer to take the CAA fee at renewal time and deal with putting the fee through via the portal. It's an extra column on my spreadsheet and is not at all a bother and offer it as a service to our 90 members. What they do with the numbers and labels is entirely up to them one way or the other.

[Mike T]

To reinforce the logic, in addition to not checking CAA registration, we also don't check that our members' cars are taxed, insured and have a valid MOT!

 

Our rules state that the Club assumes members comply with all relevant legislation pertaining to our activities, but has absolutely no responsibility for ensuring this is the case.

[GrumpyGnome]

Our club rules state that members need to be aware of, and compliant with, all current CAA regulations pertaining to model flying, including operator ID's. 

 

We don't check planes but members have been known to point out the lack of them on some models (to the models owner) - which seems to result in a sticker appearing. 

 

If a member complained, I guess a committee member would need to point out that club rules should be followed......

[EarlyBird]

7 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said:

but members have been known to point out the lack of them on some models (to the models owner) - which seems to result in a sticker appearing. 

Sounds like me. After maiden I realised no sticker, fortunately on my own so no written warning, so applied one from my stock I always carry with me. We all make mistakes which to me are best treated as unintentional oversights.

 

Steve

[Andy Stephenson]

You won't find an ID number on any of my models as I always put them on the inside. This is because they can all be dismantled without tools, which is compliant with the regulations.

[EarlyBird]

2 minutes ago, Andy Stephenson said:

You won't find an ID number on any of my models as I always put them on the inside. This is because they can all be dismantled without tools, which is compliant with the regulations.

Same here. Mine are in the battery bay.

 

Steve

[Peter Jenkins]

Ditto.

[Lima Hotel Foxtrot]

On 17/08/2022 at 17:06, MattyB said:

 

Agreed. The only recommendation to clubs from the national associations is to state that in your Club rules so that those that join know it is there responsibility to comply. The BMFA has on numerous occasions emphasised that clubs do not need to be seen to actively enforce registration and the correct display of IDs, that is a job solely for the individual.

So if the recommendation from the BMFA is for a club to state that it's a members responsibility to comply, BUT also says it's not the clubs role to enforce those rules... Which is it? If it's not the clubs place to enforce then the committee getting involved is essentially the club policing the rules.

 

If the club won't let someone fly unless the number is on the plane, they have enforced the rules, but it's not their place to enforce the rules. Logically circular argument! OR do a group of individual members who happen to be in that club attempt to impose the rule, but it's also not their responsibility to do so?

 

It's like a charter to enable the most pettifogging type of stick-your-nose-in club know-it-all!

 

If this happened in my club, the person acting as rule police would probably be told to get bent in no short order!

 

There's a club I used to be in that insists on having the serial on the outside of the plane (which they check in the pits) because the committee think it's the height of bad manners to pick up and look inside someone else's plane.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Lima Hotel Foxtrot

[Wingman]

Every member of our club is required to sign the following form on joining. Members can therefore comply or not with regulation as they wish but it is on their own back.

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Wingman
error

[Cuban8]

Bureaucrat and club rule book thumper's dream come true................... enjoy.

[MattyB]

54 minutes ago, Lima Hotel Foxtrot said:

So if the recommendation from the BMFA is for a club to state that it's a members responsibility to comply, BUT also says it's not the clubs role to enforce those rules... Which is it? If it's not the clubs place to enforce then the committee getting involved is essentially the club policing the rules.

 

If the club won't let someone fly unless the number is on the plane, they have enforced the rules, but it's not their place to enforce the rules. Logically circular argument! OR do a group of individual members who happen to be in that club attempt to impose the rule, but it's also not their responsibility to do so?

 

 

No, that's not quite what I said. All our (and the vast majority of clubs) rules state is that all members are personally accountable as an individual (not as a member of the club or the BMFA) for understanding and obeying all laws governing the flying of UAS / model aircraft. Essentially this is just a reminder - in the eyes of the law the statement is correct irrelevant of whether they are a member of the club or the BMFA. We simply capture that they have formally read and understood this at the point they join, and that's it!

 

Ultimately this is mainly about liability in the event of an incident. Explaining to members that this is their personal responsibility means there should be no opportunity for an expensive lawyer to argue that they did not know and were not sufficiently informed.

 

Could such a statement be mis-used by an overly officious committee? I suppose it's possible, but in my view that would be a misinterpretation of the both the rule we have in place and the recommendation from the BMFA. Anyway, lets be honest here - any rule can be mis-used a committee member with a personal axe to grind, the only way to make sure that deosn't happen is to make sure that your constitution document can be used to prevent or deal with such a sitiation via a suitable process that engages the whole membership.

Edited August 19, 2022 by MattyB

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Which would irk you the most, someone wilfully ignore a law aimed at us all, or someone pulling them for it ?