learning to fly - paid tuition West Country?

[kc]

16 hours ago, Tony Harrison 2 said:

Thanks kc. I've tried foamies, I've built two traditional kits (elec glider, elec small high-wing trainer) which flew very well in others' hands, crashed when I tried them solo. Latest is a fairly big high-wing job with ailerons, tricycle wheeled, i/c engined bought s/h, electrified it myself and it flies very micely under buddy-lead supervision, stable & solid. I daren't try it solo, dread destroying it. Would love to have 4-5 flights in a day, supervised & instructed - it's what I'm willing to pay for.

I think you have stated the main problem  - the small high wing trainer was probably too small  (likely high wing loading and fast )  and  " fairly big high wing job "   --" dread destroying it"

You have to accept that a landing crash might happen but usually they are repairable - it's part of the hobby!   ( after the first crash planes fly better!  it's true and it's because you dont worry so much about the model! )

 

My advice is persevere with a large light wing loading model (perhaps a vintage model- easily repaired) and ---most important--- remember that many people lose concentration after a short time, so find your own limit and don't fly beyond that time.   Loss of concentration after a while is the major cause of training crashes ( in my view) so when you fly plan to land after just a few minutes whilst concentration is still high.  Then rest a moment,  relax and go up again.

[David Davis 2]

Another problem you may have to face Tony is that nearly every Frenchman I've met flies Mode 1 and most Englishmen, including me, fly Mode 2. It's not impossible to instruct when the trainee flies the opposite mode, I do it all of the time but a French instructor may not be used to teaching someone who flies Mode 2.

[GrumpyGnome]

Not certain of my facts so post deleted 🙂

Edited January 3, 2023 by GrumpyGnome

[Tony Harrison 2]

5 hours ago, Don Fry said:

Tony, you say you migrate between France and the UK. UK in the winter. Now even in Devon, the UK is a cold, dreary, dark and windy place in winter. 
Hard work to learn there as I assume you are no longer a stripling. Summer is easier....

Don, I agree entirely. My French club owns a super large field, great landing strip, flat ground amid vineyards, and they're v friendly & sociable. The weather is not just better, it's more reliable, predictable. The best tuition I've had has been there, with one of two Brit members, a personal friend - but he's moving away. I shouldn't be discouraged by this, I know: the chairman is very welcoming, as are other members I've met. We'll see what 2023 brings. 

[Tony Harrison 2]

19 hours ago, kc said:

...the small high wing trainer was probably too small  (likely high wing loading and fast )..

..a landing crash might happen but usually they are repairable - it's part of the hobby!..

 

Loss of concentration after a while is the major cause of training crashes....

Thanks kc. Comments:

My small trainer was built from a US kit, lovely little thing, gentle flyer and not fast. Then I tried solo, crashed it within seconds, destroyed the front end, the pretty plastic cowl, had to rebuild front end laboriously. It still flies but isn't so pretty.

My very few attempts at solo flight were all very brief, never got as far as landing. No loss of concentration, just doing the wrong things.

Latest plane was designed to make flying more stable, positive, controllable, less jittery than these lightweight foamy jobs (had a couple, destroyed one, sold the other) and my little trainer. It's a 5' span high-wing job, tricycle undercarriage, ailerons, got it s/h fitted with a seized i/c engine, I modified the front end for electric power, quite hefty when loaded with two 4S batteries. It flew  very nicely under buddy lead supervision, feels solid and reassuring. But that was some months ago. When there's a decent flying day (hah!) I really don't want to try it solo: all very well saying crashes are normal, but I hate the destruction of all that careful work, especially if it means total destruction. Expensive, too. Which is why I'm considering paid tuition before I return to France in spring.

[David Davis]

I always advise beginners to start with a 5-6ft high wing monoplane with light wing loading. They are easy to see and fly pretty slowly giving the beginner lots of thinking time between manouvres. For a retired beginner whose reactions will probably be slower than those of a younger person,  I usually recommend a vintage model but I learned on a Junior 60 so I'm biased!

 

 

[kc]

I was going to reply but David Davis has said it for me!    Take his advice and just keep at it- you will get there eventually.

[Frank Skilbeck]

6 hours ago, David Davis said:

I always advise beginners to start with a 5-6ft high wing monoplane with light wing loading. They are easy to see and fly pretty slowly giving the beginner lots of thinking time between manouvres. For a retired beginner whose reactions will probably be slower than those of a younger person,  I usually recommend a vintage model but I learned on a Junior 60 so I'm biased!

 

 

Yep, I have a Majestic Major which I use to give experience flights on to interested parties, get it 3 mistakes high and they have plenty of time to work it out, yes they have to fly it, but because it doesn't do anything quickly they have enough time to work it out so I don't end up forever taking back control.

[David Hazell 1]

My advice would be get a simulator on your home computer. Smashed up pixels are way less mentally draining. I spent about 8 hours just figuring out how to land a high wing trainer 8 of 10 times in differing wind conditions. And also getting used to orientation. My comp is a Mac and I used Aerofly RC 7 which cost about $30 and a £20 USB controller off amazon. It made a massive difference to my ability to fly. Not 100% like the real thing, but seriously close enough.

[Tony Harrison 2]

1 hour ago, David Hazell 1 said:

My advice would be get a simulator on your home computer. Smashed up pixels are way less mentally draining. I spent about 8 hours just figuring out how to land a high wing trainer 8 of 10 times in differing wind conditions. And also getting used to orientation. My comp is a Mac and I used Aerofly RC 7 which cost about $30 and a £20 USB controller off amazon. It made a massive difference to my ability to fly. Not 100% like the real thing, but seriously close enough.

Thanks David. No doubt the setup you describe works better than the simulation software (couple of different ones) I've tried so far, find them very unsatisfactory. I'll look into Aerofly, and perhaps you could provide details of the USB controller - ?

[Cuban8]

11 hours ago, Tony Harrison 2 said:

Thanks kc. Comments:

My small trainer was built from a US kit, lovely little thing, gentle flyer and not fast. Then I tried solo, crashed it within seconds, destroyed the front end, the pretty plastic cowl, had to rebuild front end laboriously. It still flies but isn't so pretty.

My very few attempts at solo flight were all very brief, never got as far as landing. No loss of concentration, just doing the wrong things.

Latest plane was designed to make flying more stable, positive, controllable, less jittery than these lightweight foamy jobs (had a couple, destroyed one, sold the other) and my little trainer. It's a 5' span high-wing job, tricycle undercarriage, ailerons, got it s/h fitted with a seized i/c engine, I modified the front end for electric power, quite hefty when loaded with two 4S batteries. It flew  very nicely under buddy lead supervision, feels solid and reassuring. But that was some months ago. When there's a decent flying day (hah!) I really don't want to try it solo: all very well saying crashes are normal, but I hate the destruction of all that careful work, especially if it means total destruction. Expensive, too. Which is why I'm considering paid tuition before I return to France in spring.

I've never believed that crashes should be regarded as normal and expected during training. They should certainly never occur when buddied up other than in the case of genuine technical failure - which is very rare. If a new solo pilot keeps augering in or continually goes home with a ripped off undercart etc then is he really at the required solo standard and has the instructor been a bit too quick off the mark to let him off the leash?

It's very much a matter of judgement for an instructor and mostly the correct call is made, however any pupil can come up with a surprise from out of the blue - e.g have an attack of dumb thumbs or simply have a bad day.

The way I dealt with making a decision on whether a pilot was good to go solo (still under supervision but not buddied) was to require them to make five buddied up flights, one after the other during a flying session of say four hours max and have them perform take off, several circuits over ten minutes and then land without a serious mistake that put the model out of control or way off course from the circuit such that I'd need to retake control. So much the better if they recognised their error and made their own corrections without having control taken from them and they could then resume their flight.

  I'd expect to see a good clean take off with no squirrelling about and a decent landing rather than an arrival. I'd accept a landing that was a tad further down the patch and a run off into the rough, providing there was no damage to the model. I'd not accept a landing that didn't make it to the patch but was misjudged and short in the rough.

Seemed to work well as a system.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Cuban8

[David Hazell 1]

2 hours ago, Tony Harrison 2 said:

Thanks David. No doubt the setup you describe works better than the simulation software (couple of different ones) I've tried so far, find them very unsatisfactory. I'll look into Aerofly, and perhaps you could provide details of the USB controller - ?

 

Well if you already have a transmitter, it might be able to be used as a controller - depends on what you have. If not you could pick up a transmitter that suits you, but also can be used to control a simulator. 

 

Otherwise, I bought one of these from Amazon: (well this is simlar, but it's a few quid more. I paid £32 actually for my controller.) https://www.amazon.co.uk/unknows-Simulator-JTL-0904A-Fixed-wing-Helicopter/dp/B09FSRHSX8/ref=sr_1_135?keywords=usb+flight+simulator&qid=1672864956&s=kids&sprefix=usb+flight+si%2Ctoys%2C64&sr=1-135

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by David Hazell 1

[GrumpyGnome]

If you want a cheap sim.....

 

You can get hold of a good simulator (Phoenix) free off the internet as it's abandon-ware.  There are also hundreds of user created models and airfields downloadable free.  You can get a dongle off ebay for about a tenner and you're in business; lots of transmitters supported - what do you have?

[cymaz]

On 04/01/2023 at 21:45, GrumpyGnome said:

If you want a cheap sim.....

 

You can get hold of a good simulator (Phoenix) free off the internet as it's abandon-ware.  There are also hundreds of user created models and airfields downloadable free.  You can get a dongle off ebay for about a tenner and you're in business; lots of transmitters supported - what do you have?

 

https://www.flyingtech.co.uk/products

 

Excellent service from this lot

 

[GrumpyGnome]

Indeed, had a few receivers from them.

 

£20 for a cable, with no wait, sounds ok to me.

[cymaz]

There another thread about simulators.

I did the free download and dongle route 

 

 

[paul devereux]

On 04/01/2023 at 21:45, GrumpyGnome said:

If you want a cheap sim.....

 

You can get hold of a good simulator (Phoenix) free off the internet as it's abandon-ware.  There are also hundreds of user created models and airfields downloadable free.  You can get a dongle off ebay for about a tenner and you're in business; lots of transmitters supported - what do you have?

Do you have a link to a reliable dongle? The internet is a big place and there are lots of scammers. The Phoenix is easy to download, finding a dongle is not so easy.

Edited January 9, 2023 by paul devereux

[cymaz]

https://www.flyingtech.co.uk/accessories/usb-flight-simulator-adapter-cable-phoenix-aerofly-fms

 

I have-a Futaba radio and this works .

[GrumpyGnome]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354096624986 this is the one I bought - works with all the txs I have with a trainer socket - an old EFlite heli tx, a FlySky tx), a Taranis, and a MicroZone tx.  Can't get my Radiomaster to work with it.......

 

It took about 10 days to arrive.  Ebay currently lists similar items from UK sellers - type 'simulator cable'........

 

If you look on RCGroups here https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2382571-User-Built-Models-for-PhoenixRC you can download Phoenix (and update to 'final' version), plus download tons of models and flying sites.

[Jake Bullit]

I use this wireless  dongle,works great with my old Frsky Taranis,just binds like a regular rx:

 

https://www.hobbyrc.co.uk/frsky-xsr-sim-wireless-simulator

[paul devereux]

Thanks @cymaz @GrumpyGnome @Jake Bullit and others for advice on sims. I have now got Phoenix flying on my PC for £20, it's great fun, and I was thinking of spending 5 to 10x that on a current sim!

[GrumpyGnome]

Yeah, a real bargain!

 

Don't forget the downloadable planes and sites at rc thoughts.com and rcgroups ....

 

Enjoy.

[paul devereux]

I have been thinking, my initial comments were very unkind and unfair about a Dorset Club- I'm as green as anything, I was given a PZ Harvard as a Christmas present, and I expected someone to help me get it to fly. It had been raining, the ground was soggy, the elevator control was working the wrong way (they said, and it turns out quite rightly, counter-intuitively up is down and vice versa ) and they said a high wing trainer was a better bet. So maybe what I perceived as a lack of help was actually good advice.

 

 

[cymaz]

A wet, soggy flying field in the teeth of a force 8 in January is not a good start. I try and encourage new fliers to have some patience and wait for a calm day. As a novice you then see/feel how the plane reacts to your inputs rather than fighting high winds and Mother Nature. 

Its sounds like the club members have given you sound advice.

Best of luck....

 

My old flying instructor said, one of the greatest skills is when knowing not to fly!

Edited January 12, 2023 by cymaz

[Graham Bowers]

7 hours ago, paul devereux said:

I have been thinking, my initial comments were very unkind and unfair about a Dorset Club- I'm as green as anything, I was given a PZ Harvard as a Christmas present, and I expected someone to help me get it to fly. It had been raining, the ground was soggy, the elevator control was working the wrong way (they said, and it turns out quite rightly, counter-intuitively up is down and vice versa ) and they said a high wing trainer was a better bet. So maybe what I perceived as a lack of help was actually good advice.

 

 

Sounds like it was and good on you for saying so.