First taste of the sky

[toto]

Hi Zflyer,

 

I always take liquids with me .... plenty. I am guilty of forgetting the suncream at times .... and usually pay the price. I don't think folks realise ( until to late ) that the sun can be just as fierce in the uk as I is in some of the hotter climates .... on a good day anyway.

 

Cheers

 

Toto

[toto]

Well all packed and ready to go flying....

 

 

Apologies for the squint image.

 

Now ... a well earned cup of coffee.

 

See you at the field.

 

Toto

[Ron Gray]

[toto]

Thanks for that Ron. I hope I get it right in the air ....

[GrumpyGnome]

Hooe you have/had a good day.

 

On the way home, try and put heavy stuff in front of your models, preferably in footwells and/or restrained to avoid 'sudden deceleration damage'.....

[Jake Bullit]

Good amount of room in the Arty 😁

[toto]

What a day ........

 

Beautiful weather ...... terrible flying .... 

 

Sun splitting the sky .... wow.

 

1st flight with the Supercub ...... very slight crosswind but nothing to write home about. Up she goes ..... beautiful ..... into the first bend , gracefully banking as is the normal with the Supercub ....... oh ..... what's that black object flying off it ........ one of the wheels. These are only held on with circlips and Iwas not keen on that ...... but went with them.

 

So .... I did a couple of circuits and decided its best to get it down. I've got two choices ... land on the runway with short grass but risking the wheel axle digging into the ground and sending the whole model cartwheeling and probably disintegrating ....... or ...... gliding the model down and into the long grass .... about 2 to 3 feet long. .... The long grass won the day and down she duly came. ...... no damage so delighted ..... and ..... I found the wheel in the next field to us.

 

So now it's either a fresh circlip or replacing the whole UC with something else. 

 

Next up the remaiden of the Beaver. Took off using quite a bit of elevator as the grass was short but could have been shorter. Quite a bit of drag. ..... well up she went and immediately went into some very involuntary hi speed manoeuvres. I absolutely struggled to keep control of her and ended up handing over control to one of my fellow flyers. He flew it around a bit and done a bit trimming but it just didn't feel right at all. Very very frisky. In the end I handed him back control and let him land it which he did no problem.

 

 

So two very short flights today. The only positive I really take from today is the fact that I managed the " one wheeled " landing successfully without writing off the Supercub.

 

I get the Supercub air worthy again as she is without doubt the model to fly. The Beaver ...... strip the settings back to th3 start and start from scratch again getting my mentor to do the remaiden again for me.

 

No more flying for a couple of weeks now though as weddings and holidays take over for now.

 

Cheers

 

Toto   

[Learner]

34 minutes ago, toto said:

What a day ........

 

Beautiful weather ...... terrible flying .... 

 

Sun splitting the sky .... wow.

 

1st flight with the Supercub ...... very slight crosswind but nothing to write home about. Up she goes ..... beautiful ..... into the first bend , gracefully banking as is the normal with the Supercub ....... oh ..... what's that black object flying off it ........ one of the wheels. These are only held on with circlips and Iwas not keen on that ...... but went with them.

 

So .... I did a couple of circuits and decided its best to get it down. I've got two choices ... land on the runway with short grass but risking the wheel axle digging into the ground and sending the whole model cartwheeling and probably disintegrating ....... or ...... gliding the model down and into the long grass .... about 2 to 3 feet long. .... The long grass won the day and down she duly came. ...... no damage so delighted ..... and ..... I found the wheel in the next field to us.

 

So now it's either a fresh circlip or replacing the whole UC with something else. 

 

Next up the remaiden of the Beaver. Took off using quite a bit of elevator as the grass was short but could have been shorter. Quite a bit of drag. ..... well up she went and immediately went into some very involuntary hi speed manoeuvres. I absolutely struggled to keep control of her and ended up handing over control to one of my fellow flyers. He flew it around a bit and done a bit trimming but it just didn't feel right at all. Very very frisky. In the end I handed him back control and let him land it which he did no problem.

 

 

So two very short flights today. The only positive I really take from today is the fact that I managed the " one wheeled " landing successfully without writing off the Supercub.

 

I get the Supercub air worthy again as she is without doubt the model to fly. The Beaver ...... strip the settings back to th3 start and start from scratch again getting my mentor to do the remaiden again for me.

 

No more flying for a couple of weeks now though as weddings and holidays take over for now.

 

Cheers

 

Toto   

You had no option today, but this is why it's best to stick with one model when your learning. You'll find it hard, probably impossible to get the cub and beaver to fly exactly the same.

Edited June 23 by Learner

[toto]

I agree Learner,

 

When the wheel came off the Supercub, I thought thank god I brought the Beaver. At least I can keep flying ...... but after the first Beaver flight ...... called it a day. I could have played ar9und with the settings but thought ..... nah ..... get out whilst the goings good.

 

So went out with 4 batteries for each model and came back with 3 of each type used.

 

I've sent away online for circlips  already  and shall get the Supercub back on track ... and ... stick with it.

 

Toto

[Learner]

3 minutes ago, toto said:

I agree Learner,

 

When the wheel came off the Supercub, I thought thank god I brought the Beaver. At least I can keep flying ...... but after the first Beaver flight ...... called it a day. I could have played ar9und with the settings but thought ..... nah ..... get out whilst the goings good.

 

So went out with 4 batteries for each model and came back with 3 of each type used.

 

I've sent away online for circlips  already  and shall get the Supercub back on track ... and ... stick with it.

 

Toto

It's worth taking as a spare to keep you flying, and with a few tweaks it'll  be fine,

Just don't expect it to fly the same.

[Peter Jenkins]

Possible causes of the Beaver problems:

 

1. CG too far aft - move it forward by 5% of wjng chord.

2. Too much control movement for the size of the control surfaces - reduce the throws to 10 degs for aileron and elevators and 25 degs for rudder and try that.

 

Peter

[toto]

I think I was also holding back the elevator for too long after taking off and when I started loosing control ..... panicked and all he'll let loose.

 

My mentor suggested resetting the throw movements ..... starting off by setting the " end throws " prior to setting dual rates etc. Also recommended setting expo as per the book as well.

 

I get the " end throw " idea as when you set your dual or in my case triple rates, you are only achieving say 100 .... 70 ...... or 60 percent of the allowable end throws that you have set.

 

The instructions I'm sure gives you throw limits of say 22mm up and 22mm down ( sets the total throw travel allowed .... the end throws ) they can be set for ailerons, elevator and I think rudder as well.

 

Time to consult the instructions again. ..... learning something everyday.....

 

Toto

[aidan mcatamney]

Well done Toto on saving the Super Cub. The Beaver will keep for another day.  I'd concentrate solely now on the Cub and take it from there.   

[toto]

Absolutely Aidan,

 

It was unfortunate about the Cub because I would have happily flown the pants of that today. I'll have it back in the air for my return from my holidays. The boc of muti size circlips arrive tomorrow and a set of circlip pliers.

 

Toto

[Peter Jenkins]

At the point they tell you to measure the control throws Toto, what is the chord if the control surface.  Then divide the throw, in this case 22 by the chord, or width of the ckntrol surface, lets say it's 100 mm to make the sums easy. So 22÷100= 0.22.

 

Now on your mobile select calculator and turn the phone so it's in landscape mode and you'll get the scientific calculator.  I've taken a screen shot of my Samsung phone calculator and attached it.  Kn the screen shot at top left there are 2 horizontal arrows that trigger between normal and inverse function.

 

You may remember that in a right angled triangle, tangent is the legth of the vertical side opposite the angle in question and adjacent is the side forming one arm of the angle.  So your 22 mm is the "opposite" side and the chord is the "adjacent" side.  The division I gave in two paras above gives you the tangent of the angle.

 

Now, if you press that button with the two horizontal arrows going in opposite directions you will see the Tan button changes to Tan-1  except the -1 is small type and raised to the top as in my screen shot.  This function now gives you the angle of the measurements you have input.

 

So, in my example, the answer is 12.4.deg. if you are much higher than that for your rate that you are using (not 100%) then you need to bring it back to between 10 and 15 degs.  

 

It's more useful to talk about degrees of throw than measuring at a specific point.  You csn use a throw meter (something like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004102469102.html?pdp_npi=4%40dis!GBP!17.39!13.22!!!156.41!118.87!%40210126da17189344561877705d13d3!12000028039512071!affd!!!&dp=50244fd6546b151505bbab1b066288639b80e47a&aff_fcid=e758a52542ee4f23bde22d5f6050ae38-1719167898106-09315&aff_fsk&aff_platform=api-new-product-query&sk&aff_trace_key=e758a52542ee4f23bde22d5f6050ae38-1719167898106-09315&terminal_id=822bf8e54f304dc78ba66515f44fefa7&afSmartRedirect=y) to give you the measurement directly.  You can now compare control throws on different size control surfaces, or models, very easily as an angle is absolute.

 

Hope thst helps.

[Ron Gray]

Hell's teeth Peter, that's enough to scare anyone off setting a model up. My suggestion, set the controls up so that everything is at neutral when the sticks are centred, then if the instructions say 22m up / down for ailerons set rates so that is the MAX then half that for MIN and somewhere in between for the MID rates. Repeat for all control surfaces and make sure CoG is as per the instructions. Then, now here's the good bit, get someone else (experienced pilot)to fly it for you first and let them trim it and feedback on the amount of control throws. Job done.

[Learner]

1 minute ago, Ron Gray said:

Hell's teeth Peter, that's enough to scare anyone off setting a model up. My suggestion, set the controls up so that everything is at neutral when the sticks are centred, then if the instructions say 22m up / down for ailerons set rates so that is the MAX then half that for MIN and somewhere in between for the MID rates. Repeat for all control surfaces and make sure CoG is as per the instructions. Then, now here's the good bit, get someone else (experienced pilot)to fly it for you first and let them trim it and feedback on the amount of control throws. Job done.

I agree, but it maybe better in mm rather than metres😘

 

[toto]

Hi Peter,

 

A bit like this one but the right way up  .... I can't seem to rotate images when I porting from my pad.

 

 

i will have a play around with this and try and get my head around your post as well.

 

thanks for the explanation .... I just need to process it now. 

 

Cheers

 

Toto

[Peter Jenkins]

Toto

 

If you have a throw meter there is no need to calculate the angle.  Just use the throw meter.  I didn't realise you had the throw meter hence the trigonometry lesson.

 

Ron, it's all dad simple trig.  The issue is how to get the functions on a calculator. 

[toto]

Thanks Peter.

 

I'm going to have a swatch on the Internet and hopefully find a couple of videos showing this being used although.  ... to be honest, think I can probably find my way.

 

I think this is one of these instances where my learning journey will take another step forward. I'm slowly picking things up one at a time and it's just a matter of time before all the pieces of the jigsaw come together towards having a proficiently set up model ...... all hugely interesting.

 

Imagine having a model that is actually set up right ..... . Probably time to recheck the C of G as well. Get things set up from the bottom up.

 

Thanks for all the input.

 

Toto

[Ron Gray]

42 minutes ago, Peter Jenkins said:

it's all dad simple trig.

But not necessary imo, I’ve only ever bothered going down that route when I attempted F3A! TBH with all new models I make an ‘educated’ guess as to what I think the throws should be, regardless of instructions then go and fly the model. What it behaves like in the air determines, for me, the correct settings.

[Peter Jenkins]

1 hour ago, Ron Gray said:

But not necessary imo, I’ve only ever bothered going down that route when I attempted F3A! TBH with all new models I make an ‘educated’ guess as to what I think the throws should be, regardless of instructions then go and fly the model. What it behaves like in the air determines, for me, the correct settings.

Yes, but Toto doesn't have your experience.  In any event, in my experience, the majority of pilots in their early stages tend to having too much movement on the controls that leads to problems of over controlling and pilot induced oscillations that usually end badly.  I will post some photos for Toto's benefit.

[Peter Jenkins]

Hi Toto

 

I've appended some photos of my Wot 4 that I used to gain my B and that I still fly from time to time to demonstrate the B to candidates.

 

I should say that I arrived at these, and the current CG, through a process of trial and error over the 3 months that I spent practicing for my B.  I have since measured them and they are quite instructive.  On my Tx I have 3 rates as normal and I used them for spinning (max control movement), normal flying and flying the 2 consecutive rolls that require a constant roll rate as one of the criteria.

 

Starting with the ailerons, the photos show the full rate movement, then the normal rate and then the 2 continuous roll movement.  In the last case, I chose this rate so I could apply full aileron and then just have to worry about timing the elevator inputs since there isn't a requirement to use the rudder for these rolls.  Out of curiosity, I have flown the entire B schedule, excepting the Spin, on the lowest rates and it is perfectly doable but you do need to use full aileron for rolling into and out of turns, and full elevator for the loop and bunt.

 

                           

 

                                      18 degrees                                                                                                                                      10 degrees

                                        5 degrees

 

 

The Elevators follow:

 

                             

                                            18 degrees                                                                                                                 10 degrees

 

                                 5 degrees

 

It won't have escaped your notice that 10 degrees of movement are what I arrived at through trial and error.  Now, I set these figures as my starting normal flying control throws and adjust from there.

 

Note that even with just 5 degrees of movement with full stick movement is sufficient to fly the B schedule manoeuvres but you do need to make sure that you are high enough for the bunt!  The height required is just a bit higher than the top of the loop!  This may not be the case for other aircraft or if the CG isn't in the optimised position.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

 

100 60 30

[Philip Lewis 3]

3 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

But not necessary imo, I’ve only ever bothered going down that route when I attempted F3A! TBH with all new models I make an ‘educated’ guess as to what I think the throws should be, regardless of instructions then go and fly the model. What it behaves like in the air determines, for me, the correct settings.

I agree entirely with Ron, set the max travel to the maximum you will need as per the max throws recommended, completely irrelevant whether that is in degrees or mm, Toto is a beginner, he's not about to take his A test yet, and nowhere near his B test, stop confusing him and just keep it simple at this stage is my advice, intricacies can come in  much later on. Set max rates as above and min rates as half the above, don't bother about mid rates, at this stage keep it simple.

 

Then the obvious, get someone experienced to test it out and modify if needed.

Edited June 23 by Philip Lewis 3
Spelling

[GrumpyGnome]

@toto, sorry, more info - but simple.

 

If the manual calls for, say 15mm movement, I'd just measure it with a ruler, at 100% servo movement, adjusting the linkage manually to get as close as possible, before tinkering with the transmitter end points/travel/eta/weight etc.

 

Move the control rod further out on the servo arm to increase movement, further in to decrease.

Move the control rod further in on the control surface horn to increase movement, further out to decrease.

 

Proper old school but its still good practice (imho) to get things right mechanically first.

 

Typically I get rid of multiple rates asap, and use flight modes - that can wait!