The Big Question ?

[Paul Johnson 4]

Na it's Australian.....

[John Timmis]

First flight of the 190 on Wed . No drama everything perfect. Thanks Richard , it’s a cracking model. The Tempest kit has just arrived today. 
How good is that?😀😀

John

[RICHARD WILLS]

As the weather has finally perked up , Ive been nipping out to do some flying . There is a fair gaggle of Fw190s buzzing about , so I dont feel quite so precious about the prototype . 

I didnt really get why everyone was raving about it so much , as I 'd only had two shakedown flights in the winter , to make sure it had a gentle stall and generally good handling. It was based on a previous 190 so not far from the beaten track . 

Having now flown it to the max in everyway on a sunny day with light to no wind conditions , I can honestly say it is one of the easiest warbirds you could fly . 

It literally flies like a Gangster 63 for those old enough to remember . The objective was an easy to build , no fuss warbird and in this instance , thats what we have . 

The Tempest has had a few shake down flights in bad weather and seems very similar . Interesting to compare the figures for the pair . 

The Fw190 has a span of 52"  weighs 4lb 10oz with a 4s 3300pack , making the wing loading 24.42oz/sq ft .

The Tempest has a span of 55" weighs 5lb 5oz with a 4s 3300 pack  making the wing loading 23oz /sq ft .

Both are now equipped with retracts (somebody had to test them ) . I would guess that retracts add around 7oz, which is included above .

So your wing loading would be around 22oz/sq ft , which is very low . 

That wing loading is much more what you would expect from a low wing sport model than a warbird , so we have done well .

The wing sections are very friendly too , so with even more weight , I dont think there would be a problem .

The 190 is exceptional in its handling and I dont think the Tempest will be far behind . The cranked wing may make the rolls less axial but there again its shape in the air is more dramatic , so there must be a compromise . 

 

 

[gillyg1]

Well done Richard for all your hard work/ effort/ time etc you put in too produce these quality warbirds 👍

[mightypeesh]

Both look fantastic Richard! Have you any shots of how they look sitting on the retracts, still thinking about them for my 190.

 

Cheers, Simon

[RICHARD WILLS]

They havent got wheel doors , so Its a bit like a lady with no skirt ! 

Im on Holiday for two weeks on Monday so Ron and Eric will be advising. 

When I get back , I will fit doors and I expect Paul Johnson will be getting ready to send out retract packs. 

Anyone wanting the packs could contact him direct with a pm . 

My thoughts on the retracts are this : 

How good is your runway ? 

If its a good flat , well cut grass strip or concrete then a lot of satisfaction can be had by doing a smooth landing . 

The 190 I was flying yesterday comes in as smooth as silk , but even or long runway has a spring wave effect until its rollered . 

That means you can come in beautifully , skimming the tops of the "waves" but if you touch in a low point , the model can flip onto its back . 

No damage done usually but out of our control .

I think everyone should try them at some point and your chance of success is way better with a foam veneered wing . 

Flight performance is barely affected and you cant get a much more friendly warbird . 

Dont try to put the retract pack together yourself . Remember , Ive flown thousands of flights on this type of model and I know exactly the best compromise . 

Copying the practice of ARTFs is not the answer . (oleos etc and no shock absorbing coil spring ) .

[mightypeesh]

Hi Richard, sounds good. We are fortunate to have a well mown and excellently maintained field at our club so the retracts should not be a problem🙂. Have a good break and I look forwards to the retract sets coming out.

 

Cheers, Simon

[Paul Johnson 4]

On 10/05/2024 at 16:17, mightypeesh said:

Have a good break and

Huh... master goes away and leaves me locked in the basement...

[Ron Gray]

6 minutes ago, Paul Johnson 4 said:

Huh... master goes away and leaves me locked in the basement...

Think yourself lucky, the ‘boys’ are locked in the loo, or did he mean they’ve gone to Looe?

[Glenn Philbrick]

Flew my L.A. 7 for the first time this year, I'd forgetten how well it flies and how stable it is on landing absolute joy. Tonge in cheek now hopefully the mossie will be just as good!!

 

 

 

[gillyg1]

guy's 

I have a wr hurricane kit, could somebody please provide a link to a build thread for it ,  have done a search for "warbird replicas hurricane " but nothing significant comes up.

many thanks Graham (Cornwall)

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Some chat and building on this.

 

[andrew exton]

Maiden flight today I have to say & agree with others that have flown this models 

 

it’s superb  👍, 😁😁😁

 

 

[Lipo Man]

25 minutes ago, andrew exton said:

Maiden flight today I have to say & agree with others that have flown this models 

 

it’s superb  👍, 😁😁😁

 

 

Another different colour scheme - looks great! Congratulations - that’s a beauty. 

[Ron Gray]

Well done Andrew, a splendid model.

[RICHARD WILLS]

I like the rudder weathering in particular (and the med paint scheme ) , perfect in the bright sunshine . 

Im going to have to get some more 190 kits in the autumn as several people missed the boat (the one with planes on it ) .......

Which would make it , an aircraft carrier . 

(no , i'm not doing one of those , so please don't start ) 

[Paul Johnson 4]

Well then I suppose that makes Royal mail an aircraft carrier...

[leccyflyer]

On 20/08/2023 at 09:10, RICHARD WILLS said:

Well Ron , as you have dabbled with mini production runs , you will appreciate whats involved . We also have to keep these cheap for their size and quick to build . 

If it goes ahead it will be a winter build for us all , with me obviously needing to make the two prototypes first . 

My gut feeling would be to settle on the Tempest and Fw190a as they offer two different paint jobs, dont clash with Funfighters and I have canopies and cowls (albeit need a new one for the 190 )  Regarding their construction , just chewing it over at the moment .

Initial thoughts are similar to my original kits of the 2000s but instead of foam veneer wings and decks , use computer cut dense blue foam . Wood is expensive , but I think tail surfaces and perhaps fuselage sides are worth the expense to prevent future warping .  

Now , this is the important statement . From my experience , the exact shape and quality of build and final prep (sanding down etc) is not that important . 

So the brown papering to protect the foam parts and seal the wood parts can be done cold like wall papering and just smooth it on with your hands . Any fool can do it (i am one of them ) .  When it dries , it will go tight and look , at worst , OK . 

However If you nip back to my pictures of the Fw190 , Tempest and  Zero , you cannot tell that they are way off scale and made of foam board and brown paper !

Our shapes will be better than that , but my point is , that to get a jump on other club members who show up with beautifully moulded warbirds , we do need a  convincing finish . You have seen over the years how my models look , but be reassured ,  I am not a perfectionist like Ron , Graham R or Paul Johnson , so you dont need to be one either to get a real wow factor model . 

So the trick with this adventure , assuming it goes ahead , is to get a very fast build , then all of us that are  a bit shaky on painting will follow the B and Q paint with a brush finish , which I will lead . I am confident that we can get a very similar look to an airbrushed finish and all for a few pounds . 

On the other note mentioned by Dave B  on launching , I wondered if the simple ground bungee and toppling A frame(trestle)  method would work ? 

For those that don't know it , you simply stretch a short bungee along the floor , but one third the length from the fixed stake end you put a foot high trestle , making the bungee ramp up from the model . As you let go, the model heads off at about 10 degrees , but then before it gets to the trestle , the retraction of the bungee pulls the trestle over leaving clean air . 

To make this go ahead , perhaps chat to your friends to see if they fancy it ,as we do need numbers to make it work . 

No Idea about how much price wise ,  but if you consider a bigger fun fighter then I guess you will be near the mark . They should be versatile enough to pull radio and esc and motor out of the spares drawer or an older model . 2 blade prop availability is so great that motor KV and battery size options are endless . Plus, when you consider that point and not too fussy about KV , then you can buy motors from around £20 . 

Going back to this seminal thread -for a reason I'll explain later - I struggled to find one post that properly summarised and outlined the path that this project has taken, but I think this post of Richard's does a decent job. The basic background for the project is explained and the aims laid out. I think that, based on what I've seen in the resultant build threads, in videos, in pictures, in my own model and others that the project has been a spectacular success and achieved all of what was desired for it. For me personally the only minor disappointment was in not completing and having my own aeroplanes ready for the 80thh Anniversary of D-Day. That was my own fault for diverting my attention onto other ongoing projects. It's ameliorated a bit by the weather being so dreadful that I didn't even manage my usual annual D-Day black and white stripy aeroplane flying.

 

Now to the reason that prompted me looking back over the thread. An ad just popped up on my FB feed for a very rarely offered for sale second hand 1.5m  E-Flite FW190 and I'll be putting the link to that on the recent Wanted thread for such a model. However, looking at the pictures, as the owner of quite a few nice foamie warbirds, and likely to have some more at some time in the future, I was struck by the comparison with the superb practical models that I've seen completed from Richard's kits.

 

https://www.facebook.com/commerce/listing/2785617814931303/?media_id=0&ref=share_attachment

 

Nine months ago I would have been tempted by the EFlite offering - £300 is a reasonable saving on the new price of £500+, but still a chunk of cash for a foamie. Today?  Having seen the job that my fellow modellers have made of their Butcher Birds? Not a chance. The EFlite offering doesn't come anywhere close. I'm even thinking the pictures must be a bit distorted - the proportions look more like my profile depron Fatty Me109.

 

I'd call that mission accomplished.

[stu knowles]

I arrived at a similar conclusion about foamies a long time ago.  I cannot deny their flyability and ease of operation and I always have one available, often carried as a back up model to the main flyer of the day.  I find that they are completely without 'soul' and find no pleasure in ownership or flying beyond just keeping the eye / thumb co-ordination sharp.  Look along a flightline and they often dominate, all the same as each other.   Yuk!

 

When they were as cheap as chips, under £100, you'd be mad not to have one but paying ££££££'s ?  Nope.

 

Some of the WR models shown on this forum are amazing.  Reasonably priced kit.  Kept simple, BP/PVA covering.  Household emulsion paint and weathered with a bit of chalk and ingenuity, they look fantastic and there isn't another one just like that anywhere.  

 

I normlly fly bigger stuff that takes ages to finish.   I broke off the main project to pull together Richard's Tempest.  It been really refreshing to build something that moves along so fast.  Beats a foamy hands down!

 

 

[RICHARD WILLS]

Thank you for that summary Brian . It is very kind of you to say so . 

It has been a big episode and I have to admit , two designs in quick succession has been quite a grind . 

However , I have really enjoyed seeing the models come together in all of their various colour schemes . I am impressed with how everyone , from seasoned old hands , right through to our excellent (and trusting !)  newbies have coped with the kits , which are essentially "first production run models " . 

It is fabulous how we have all jumped to the rescue if a chap stumbles, with helpful and well meaning suggestions .

As we said at the beginning of this thread , if we want more kits in the future , it is no good going to the shed with your own stash of balsa and old kits and pulling the ladder up . 

I get a big kick out of seeing you all succeed with my designs . I make them to fly and consequently use my prototypes every week, because they are fun .  

There are problems to face in the future . Balsa is very expensive now , so I will try design around that issue , but on the other hand if we all buy and build only one model a year , is that expensive ? Given the time we spend building and flying our creation probably amounts to a couple of pence per hour and of course , what value do you put on those moments after a great flight , when somebody says "where did you get that mate ?"

"I flippen made it !"

Buy second hand foamies and enjoy them, but like someone else's children or dog , you will never love them like your own . 

What value can you put on that ?

 

[Gordon McConnell]

Well, finally the weather in Ayrshire was kinder, with only a light wind, and it was time at last to have the FW190 first flight!! 

Despite all the good things written about the docile handling of the model by the forum members, I was too nervous to take charge of the first flight. A talented pilot and fellow club member, Ewan Reeves, very kindly took the controls. The hand launch was so easy and the FW190 flew away very smoothly. We were amazed that no trim at all was required and just how smooth and stable the aircraft was in flight. It flies like it is on rails! Ewan tried a stall test with showed a classic behaviour of a nose drop on full up elevator with no tendency for a wing drop. The landing was easy as well even if the slight breeze dictated a downhill landing as our strip is on a slope.

Ewan thought it was by far the best warbird he has ever flown and the other club members present were equally impressed. 

Then it was my turn at the controls for a flight which really exceeded my expectations. So easy to fly, manoeuvrable and able to fly big scale display turns. I am really looking forward to expanding its flight envelope within my capabilities.

 

Richard, congratulations for delivering a fantastic model. It meets every requirement set out in the thread. Just brilliant!!

 

I will try to post a video or two although I don't have Ron's great editing skills 😀

 

[Gordon McConnell]

Videos of FW190 First Flight - click on the U-Tube link.

 

https://youtu.be/Pllhl1u5p_8

 

https://youtu.be/f69Hrwe6g4o

 

https://youtu.be/7YzbXcEh--g

 

 

[Murat Kece 1]

On 05/07/2024 at 13:34, RICHARD WILLS said:

Thank you for that summary Brian . It is very kind of you to say so . 

It has been a big episode and I have to admit , two designs in quick succession has been quite a grind . 

However , I have really enjoyed seeing the models come together in all of their various colour schemes . I am impressed with how everyone , from seasoned old hands , right through to our excellent (and trusting !)  newbies have coped with the kits , which are essentially "first production run models " . 

It is fabulous how we have all jumped to the rescue if a chap stumbles, with helpful and well meaning suggestions .

As we said at the beginning of this thread , if we want more kits in the future , it is no good going to the shed with your own stash of balsa and old kits and pulling the ladder up . 

I get a big kick out of seeing you all succeed with my designs . I make them to fly and consequently use my prototypes every week, because they are fun .  

There are problems to face in the future . Balsa is very expensive now , so I will try design around that issue , but on the other hand if we all buy and build only one model a year , is that expensive ? Given the time we spend building and flying our creation probably amounts to a couple of pence per hour and of course , what value do you put on those moments after a great flight , when somebody says "where did you get that mate ?"

"I flippen made it !"

Buy second hand foamies and enjoy them, but like someone else's children or dog , you will never love them like your own . 

What value can you put on that ?

 

I can only ditto.. Very well said Brian and extremely well done Richard!!

[Murat Kece 1]

My butcher is ready to butcher tomorrow..

[RICHARD WILLS]

This one was spotted at the West London Fun fly In ,  Brian Seymour who campaigns the wonderful Macchi 202 on a regular basis , took a picture and presumably chatted with the owner . 

I tried to back track through the various 190 threads to spot the model but it's like a spider web now with threads everywhere . 

I might be wrong but I think it may be David Orrells . 

We have five "Daves" so its not easy !

Anyway , it looks fabulous, so come on Dave tell us what response you got at the show 😁