Out of curiosity - How do you fly FPV

[Nigel Heather]

A few years ago, I watched some FPV freestyle, and I was intrigued enough to start looking at building my own, I wanted to go DIY, and knew I wanted freestyle rather than racing or filming, and I came close to buying.

 

But then the Gatwick incident happened, we got the drone laws, then the pandemic and my ideas got shelved.

 

Now, years later, from time to time I start looking into again, it is pretty much the same other than there is now the option of analogue vs digital video to consider.

 

But the one biggest obstacle is that I don’t understand how you can fly FPV under the drone laws.  My understanding is that you must maintain line of sight with the aircraft at all times, that means you must have a spotter who is taking responsibility and that you must not fly behind anything other than momentarily.

 

Thinking of how I fly fixed wing (non-FPV) at my flying site, it is quite common that I am the only one there, so I couldn’t fly FPV on those occasions.  And even when there are others around I am not the sort of person to impose, asking one of them to watch my flying and effectively take responsibility for it.

 

This is a big obstacle for me and wondering how others cope with it or whether I have mis-interpreted the rules.

[GrumpyGnome]

No, you haven't misinterpreted the rules.

 

I'd suggest the lone flyers, and those flying at 'extreme' distances, are deliberately flouting the law, to the detriment of more traditional flyers.

[leccyflyer]

As GG said, you can't legally fly FPV in this country without a spotter and for most people that will limit the availability of that option to fly FPV. My experience has been that very often  FPV flyers essentially ignore those rules and go their merry way without a spotter, making all sorts of excuses as to why it isn't necessary.

 

Every single flight that I've made with my rarely used drone has used a spotter and that requirement definitely limits it's use, to the extent I doubt that I have more than 20 flights on the drone in it's 7 years in my fleet. It's a pity, because the FPV dogfighting with foamie funfighters in the fairly recent TV programme on the Battle of Britain looked like great fun, but without spotters it wouldn't be legal here.

[Ron Gray]

I still do fly a small amount of fpv with fixed wing but find that my spotter is calling out ‘too far away’ as he loses VLOS far too often!

[Geoff S]

Do people get motion sickness flying FPV because the balance detectors in your ears (the semi circular canals) are telling you brain a different story from your eyes?  I used to sail quite a lot and used to get sick sometimes when plotting courses below deck but rarely when in the cockpit.  I once got queasy walking between the cockpit to the fore cabin to get a smaller head sail when we were struck by a sudden squall - a matter of seconds and 4 metres.

[Frank Skilbeck]

1 hour ago, Geoff S said:

Do people get motion sickness flying FPV because the balance detectors in your ears (the semi circular canals) are telling you brain a different story from your eyes?  I used to sail quite a lot and used to get sick sometimes when plotting courses below deck but rarely when in the cockpit.  I once got queasy walking between the cockpit to the fore cabin to get a smaller head sail when we were struck by a sudden squall - a matter of seconds and 4 metres.

Some do, some don't. I found it a bit weird when I first tried it, but quickly got used to it. I only very rarely fly FPV now though, and my old analogue equipment doesn't maintain a very good video link.

[Zflyer]

I think the best way to fly fpv would be with your eyes open.

[EvilC57]

2 hours ago, Geoff S said:

Do people get motion sickness flying FPV because the balance detectors in your ears (the semi circular canals) are telling you brain a different story from your eyes?  I used to sail quite a lot and used to get sick sometimes when plotting courses below deck but rarely when in the cockpit.  I once got queasy walking between the cockpit to the fore cabin to get a smaller head sail when we were struck by a sudden squall - a matter of seconds and 4 metres.

Sitting down in a garden chair can help with this I find.

 

I’ve heard people say that flying with a screen rather than goggles on your own is OK because they can look up and see the drone LOS, which is still a bit naughty because you’re still not maintaining constant LOS.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

1+, sitting down in a chair does help.

[Bob Burton]

1 hour ago, EvilC57 said:

you’re still not maintaining constant LOS.

Is the requirement that you should maintain constant LOS or that you should not fly beyond visual LOS ?

 

They are not the same thing and, in any case when fly your 'plane do you never take your eyes of it ?

[Ron Gray]

29 minutes ago, Bob Burton said:

maintain constant LOS or that you should not fly beyond visual LOS

Aren't they same thing, if you fly beyond VLOS then your haven't maintained VLOS.

[GrumpyGnome]

Apart from an odd glance, for example to check a runway is clear, you should always be looking at your model from the moment it leaves the pits, until it returns.

 

If you have to 'search around the sky' for it, knowimg just approximately where it is, you ate not, in my view, maintaining LOS......

 

"I can see it if I look up from my screen" is simply trying to justify not adhering to the law.

Edited June 7 by GrumpyGnome

[Bob Burton]

2 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Aren't they same thing

Not at all

 

Flying within VLOS means that you can see the aircraft when you choose to look at it

Maintaining constant visual sight means that you never look away from the aircraft. 

 

One factor that should not be overlooked is the difference between flying a conventional model aircraft which is constantly moving, compared with the ability of a drone to hover in one place with no control input required. 

 

[Dickw]

From the Article 16 authorisation issued to the BMFA by the CAA :-

"The remote pilot is accompanied by a competent observer who maintains direct unaided visual contact with the unmanned aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions and advises the remote pilot accordingly;"

 

I think "....maintains direct unaided visual contact ....." covers it.

 

Dick

[Ron Gray]

11 minutes ago, Bob Burton said:

Not at all

 

Flying within VLOS means that you can see the aircraft when you choose to look at it

Maintaining constant visual sight means that you never look away from the aircraft. 

 

One factor that should not be overlooked is the difference between flying a conventional model aircraft which is constantly moving, compared with the ability of a drone to hover in one place with no control input required. 

 

Are you any good at splitting the atom Bob, coz you’re certainly adept at hairs! 🤣

 

Dick’s reply is spot on.

[leccyflyer]

Agreed - and the entire point of that maintaining direct unaided visual contact with the UAV is in order to see it's position in relation to other aircraft, vehicles, persons and structures, which may not be possible for the pilot  when flying FPV.

[Bob Burton]

The Devil is in the detail

 

If I am required to keep the aircraft in sight at all times then I can't glance at the runway to see whether it is clear for landing nor take my eyes off the aircraft to check for a potential mid air can I ?  If I am allowed to do that then surely I am allowed to hover my drone and glance down at the screen of my controller to check that what I want to photograph is framed properly

 

[leccyflyer]

15 minutes ago, Bob Burton said:

The Devil is in the detail

 

If I am required to keep the aircraft in sight at all times then I can't glance at the runway to see whether it is clear for landing nor take my eyes off the aircraft to check for a potential mid air can I ?  If I am allowed to do that then surely I am allowed to hover my drone and glance down at the screen of my controller to check that what I want to photograph is framed properly

 

That's what your spotter is there for, so if you are flying with a spotter - which you must do to be legally flying FPV in this country - then you are fine.

[Bob Burton]

I should have made it clear that my comments related to LOS flying, not FPV

 

However, is the spotter allowed to glance away to look for hazards, I wonder ?

[leccyflyer]

9 minutes ago, Bob Burton said:

I should have made it clear that my comments related to LOS flying, not FPV

 

However, is the spotter allowed to glance away to look for hazards, I wonder ?

Hopefully a competent spotter will have sufficiently good peripheral vision to be able to keep an eye on the UAV - maintaining direct unaided visual contact as required - whilst being on the look out for hazards.

[Nigel Heather]

Thanks for the replies - good news and bad news.  Good that I know the rules - so not going senile just yet.  Bad, but expected, that FPV is pretty much off the table for me - as I said, I'm often at the field on my own and when I'm not I would not feel comfortable asking people to spot for me - appreciate that is my hang-up, that other club members would be more than happy to help, but that is the way I am.

[GrumpyGnome]

I'd chuck in that spotters are like hand-launchers.... not everyone can do it well, or even acceptably 🙂

[GrumpyGnome]

2 hours ago, Bob Burton said:

The Devil is in the detail

 

If I am required to keep the aircraft in sight at all times then I can't glance at the runway to see whether it is clear for landing nor take my eyes off the aircraft to check for a potential mid air can I ?  If I am allowed to do that then surely I am allowed to hover my drone and glance down at the screen of my controller to check that what I want to photograph is framed properly

 

You are splitting hairs to justify your activities. I'd happily state that the time to check if a runway is clear is a lot less than it takes to check your screen for framing. I'd also be pretty confident that when checking for a clear runway, my model is generally closer, and easier to see, than your multi-rotor.  Maybe it's like driving a car ..... you're allowed to take your eyes off the road to glance at the speedometer, but not your phone.

 

If it were me, I'd have a spotter..... but that's me. 

 

If you follow good flying etiquette, and follow the same circuit as others, mid-airs are rare.

Edited June 7 by GrumpyGnome

[Bob Burton]

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

You are splitting hairs to justify your activities

 

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

your multi-rotor.

With respect, you know nothing about my activities or what I fly, if anything

 

As to checking whether the runway is clear taking less time than framing a 'photo, how far will the average model move during that time compared to a multi-rotor in a stationary hover ?

 

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

If it were me, I'd have a spotter

So would I if I flew FPV because the rule is clear

[Peter Jenkins]

5 hours ago, Bob Burton said:

I should have made it clear that my comments related to LOS flying, not FPV

 

However, is the spotter allowed to glance away to look for hazards, I wonder ?

Are you being deliberately provocative Bob?  All I can say is that the objective of a spotter is to replace the picture the pilot has to maintain of his model aircraft in relation to other model aircraft, full sized aviation, people, buildings, trees and so on.  Clearly this requires you to look away from your model to assess whether the other traffic or people etc are likely to be endangered by the flight path of your aircraft.  It in no way allows you as a lone flyer to operate FPV legally.  Whilst you could quite legally fly a drone and position it for taking a photograph that might involve a quick check of the picture you can see on the screen that is really no different from maintaining constant view of your aircraft vis a vis maintaining a picture of what is going on around you for the purposes of keeping your model away from causing a problem.  What is not acceptable is to be watching the screen for long periods of time relying on the drone to maintain a hover on its own.  That's akin to FPV flying and you would need an observer in that case.

 

This is not fundamentally different for a full size pilot who has to look inside the cockpit to retune his radio or do all the other regular instrument checks that need to be carried out during flight.  The pilot cannot opt to fly in IMC conditions without advising the controlling authority that is what he aims to do in which case different rules apply and see and be seen is replaced by the radar service you would be under.

 

It really isn't difficult to work out what is meant by the rules under which we operate and to try and make it so is disingenuous.