toto Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 I am reading up on my A test and I'm consulting the various guidance ( BMFA etc ) that is available. I am trying to breathe whole test procedures down into bite sized chunks to understand the order in which you should do things .... from the minute you arrive at the field to present yourself for the test ..... getting your model out and ready ..... preflight checks etc .... getting into the air .... performing the various flight elements ...... landing, model retrieval..... Post flight checks .... questions etc. But ...... to what extent are you actually directed by the Examiner ? I am hard of hearing ...... note ..... not deaf .... but my hearing is assisted by the use of hearing aids. To this end ...... where does the Examiner usually position him / herself in relation to the candidate. There are certain things that can effect the quality to my hearing ..... for instance .... wind can cause a bit whistling and therfore degrade ...... ( not completely hamper ) my hearing and I also sometimes assist my hearing by lip reading. I do hear what's being said but subconsciously over time have relied on confirmation of that by lip reading. I did ask my local Examiner.... where he would be standing at various points of the test and was told he could stand " wherever he wanted " not what I wanted to hear but in fairness to him, I did not expand on my reasoning for the question. I'll try again and be a bit more specific as to why I am interested. Hopefully he will be happy to discuss any possibilities and ways of accommodating any potential issues. Any pointers welcome Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 AFAIK, there is no ore-determined position for the examiner to take. However, their ambition is for you to be successful. If you are hard of hearing, my view is that you must not only tell your examiner, but also anyone else you are flying with, as verbal communication of pilots intentions is a vital from a safety aspect. I'd assume minimal guidance....... then if there is more, it's a bonus! But don't overthink it. It's just a test to ensure you are safe to fly unaided, and won't include any surprises, or traps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) Most tests I've seen they stand reasonably close, around arms length to your side, So shouldn't be a problem. Edited July 14 by Learner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 As an examiner I would say the first thing is to relax. The test should be stress free and the aim is to pass a candidate not fail them. Before the test starts tell the examiner about your hearing and what is best for you, he will then speak louder and/or stand on the best side etc. Before and during the test, the examiner will guide you through from start to finish, according to the guidelines and will be happy to clarify anything that you don't understand. Enjoy it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Skilbeck Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Don't worry it not like a driving test, if you don't pass you won't have to wait 6+ months for another one. Apart from the flying make sure you.do the preflight checks and.know the local club rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Don't over think things Toto - you're preparing very well indeed by the sound of it. I've had my examiner rating for 25 years and I've only had to not pass pilots on a couple of rare occasions when they were clearly in serious error with something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Until just the other day I'd never actually met anyone who had taken an "A" Test and not passed it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 9 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: Until just the other day I'd never actually met anyone who had taken an "A" Test and not passed it. You've got to be totally unprepared or have very poor flying skills to rate a failure. The two non-passes that I mentioned were back in the old 35 Meg days and involved the candidates not taking a frequency peg before switching on. Unable to cut any leeway with that I'm afraid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDB Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 hour ago, leccyflyer said: Until just the other day I'd never actually met anyone who had taken an "A" Test and not passed it. We've obviously not met then. 😁 I failed my first attempt because I had all of the manoeuvres nailed "individually" but hadn't practiced putting them together in a complete schedule. 🙄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Stephenson Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 It isn't a schedule and shouldn't be treated as one. If you feel you are not in the correct position to start a manoeuvre then you can simply fly another circuit but tell your examiner what you are doing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Dance 1 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 57 minutes ago, Andy Stephenson said: It isn't a schedule and shouldn't be treated as one. If you feel you are not in the correct position to start a manoeuvre then you can simply fly another circuit but tell your examiner what you are doing. Absolutely right, you don't even have to fly the test maneouvres in the order in which they are printed in the various documents. As far as positioning myself, as an examiner, off to oneside, it doesn't matter which and slightly behind the candidate so I can see what their fingers are doing is very helpful. Also watching them having a couple of practice flights with their instructor before the test helps you assess just how much nerves are playing a part in their performance. Often my comment is if your're being tested today and I'm on the field, you are being watched! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 9 minutes ago, Martin Dance 1 said: Absolutely right, you don't even have to fly the test maneouvres in the order in which they are printed in the various documents. As far as positioning myself, as an examiner, off to oneside, it doesn't matter which and slightly behind the candidate so I can see what their fingers are doing is very helpful. Also watching them having a couple of practice flights with their instructor before the test helps you assess just how much nerves are playing a part in their performance. Often my comment is if your're being tested today and I'm on the field, you are being watched! I thought you did have to do them in the correct order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Stephenson Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 From... THE R/C ACHIEVEMENT SCHEME GUIDANCE for AREA CHIEF EXAMINERS Many Examiner candidates (and existing Examiners) have the attitude that some of the flying tests in the achievement scheme are “aerobatics” and must be flown as a strict schedule with no deviations, very much like an FAI competition schedule. This is absolutely wrong and you must be aware of candidates who are convinced that this is the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 The manouvres must be done in the correct order, is my belief, repeated repositioning shows lack of thought and control, and likely to get you failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Stephenson Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Repeated repositioning, yes, but not the odd one due to nerves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 I’m looking for a pilot to fly the exercises safely and with enough competence to demonstrate that they are aware of what they’re doing and be able to correct any external effects. I would establish a communications protocol with you in respect to hearing difficulties - I wouldn’t fail you for mis-hearing a request to do a manoeuvre but I would stop you and remind you what I wanted you to do next. Re-positioning? I’d expect to see clear intent and positivity but wouldn’t expect any particular pattern. Examiners know that nerves play a big part and certainly within a club environment, have a pretty good picture of your general ability before you start the test. Like several others, I look for reasons to pass rather than fail - fly with awareness and sufficient competence and unless you make a real pig’s ear of anything during your test, you should have little trouble passing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 hours ago, PDB said: We've obviously not met then. 😁 I failed my first attempt because I had all of the manoeuvres nailed "individually" but hadn't practiced putting them together in a complete schedule. 🙄 The nice lad that I met the other week told me that, on his test, he had flown his circuits in the opposite direction to that requested by the examiner - which I guess could have been something as simple as "no, the other right" syndrome, which can affect anybody. Nevertheless it was sufficient to fail the test. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 The only way I would have failed someone for that is if they hadn’t called out the opposite circuit direction. Some people - especially under stress - simply don’t know left from right… In fact, in that sort of case, it’s probably more a failure of the examiner to communicate effectively! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zflyer Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 On tak8ng mine the examiner called out the manouvers he wanted me to perform. I either did a circuit before execution or just went straighr into it i called a landing to change battery completed a check before taking off resuming thw test. Not a problem. Nerves of course. But all good ans a pass , thats when flying starts!!!. Examiners want to see you pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stainforth Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 I had a kind-hearted examiner, who told me to give myself a dry run before doing the test. He said he would watch and give me any necessary tips. He even went through some trial questions. At the end of all this, he suddenly said "You've passed: that wasn't a dry run!" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 Hi John, I doubt there will be many of them about. Wouldn't it be nice. ... wishful thinking though just to get the chance to ease the nerves. However, I think if you have put in the time .... the odds will probably be in your favour. That's what I take out of the majority of comments. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Vast majority of Examiners want nothing more than candidates to pass, and most will do their upmost to help you achieve that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, Zflyer said: On tak8ng mine the examiner called out the manouvers he wanted me to perform. I either did a circuit before execution or just went straighr into it i called a landing to change battery completed a check before taking off resuming thw test. Not a problem. Nerves of course. But all good ans a pass , thats when flying starts!!!. Examiners want to see you pass. 99% or thereabouts do. Just beware if your examiner arrives in hi-viz bib and is covered in badges saying 'examiner'..... Joke BTW... Edited July 14 by Cuban8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 Knowing my luck, I'd get the one percent who is the part time gestapo member. Anyway ..... still more to do in order to get myself there. Focus on that. Toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) The way I've conducted the flying portion of tests is to make it clear to the candidate that the manoeuvers do not have to be flown as a flowing schedule, but if that was to be the case, any very poor transitions leading to bad positioning, (maybe into 'dead' airspace) and subsequent 'panic' repositioning between the manoeuvers, may be penalised as not being in satisfactory control of the model. I don't recall anyone ever choosing to do their test that way, rather, the manoeuvres are clearly called, followed by "commence" and "complete" then a positioning circuit (or two) before clearly naming the next one and the calls as above. No rush and no stress. Everyone knows where they are and what's expected. e.g. call "figure of eight"......."commence"......."complete" - on to the next one. Clearly, if a candidate is hesitant and requires an inordinate number of circuits between tasks, then that needs to be taken into account. Edited July 14 by Cuban8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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