Estate agents' drone pilots taking the mick?

[Robin Colbourne]

I appreciate that the multi-rotor pilots contracted to estate agents have a job to do, however it seems that some can't help but extend their brief to include a low level snoop around nearby properties.  On two separate occasions, a local house that is going on the market soon, has had drones taking pictures, which has included low level BVLOS (Beyond Visual Line of Sight) flights around my garden and those of neighbours.
I spoke to one of the pilots, who assured me everything he was doing was legal.  As a result, I checked the CAA's rules, but cannot find anything which permits one person BVLOS or low level flying over adjacent properties, cars, people etc. (below roof top height).   I can imagine if it was for a police or missing person search, rules may be different due to the urgency and importance of a success, however that was not the case in this instance.
I suggested to the pilot that residents might reasonably think that an unknown drone flying around their house and garden could be 'casing the joint' to see if was worth burgling.  The pilot dismissed this and said he thought I was being over dramatic, although my view seems to be shared with others locally who have experienced similar.

Do these flights for estate agents have a separate set of rules that I have not yet found or are the pilots playing fast and loose with the current regulations?
 

[J D 8 - Moderator]

  Most drone use by estate agents is contracted out. Flying out of line of sight is a NO NO. Flying under part 107 of the license.

  Complain to the estate agent selling the property.

[Ron Gray]

41 minutes ago, J D 8 - Moderator said:

Flying out of line of sight is a NO NO

Not necessarily as special dispensation can be sought, and given, for commercial operations.

[John Lee]

This appears to be a Data Protection issue. The Information Commissioner's  Office issues guidance & there appears to be a case for reporting - or threaten to report - the operator &/or the estate agent to the ICO.

 

See:

 

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/cctv-and-video-surveillance/guidance-on-video-surveillance-including-cctv/additional-considerations-for-technologies-other-than-cctv/

 

which includes this example of acceptable practice:

 

[Ron Gray]

What the operator / estate should have done was notify all residents likely to be 'affected' before the survey took place. I used to also notify the police of an intended drone operation so that if they got any calls from the public they could advise the caller accordingly. Trying to keep a drone within the confines of a property being surveyed can be quite challenging but engaging with neighbours helps! As per John's post above, sharing the data with any concerned persons also helped.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

Another storm in a tea cup, no wonder we have so many laws, just get on with living !

[J D 8 - Moderator]

2 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Not necessarily as special dispensation can be sought, and given, for commercial operations.

 While dispensation can be obtained for many services [ My former Coastguard rescue team now has access to a rescue drone which would qualify]  I very much doubt an estate agent drone taking "house for sale pics" flying low in a neighbour's would qualify.

   

[Ron Gray]

I never did any drone work for estate agents but structural surveys yes and it was relatively straightforward to get permission to do those which included flying over neighbouring properties.

[J D 8 - Moderator]

  In 2022 I had a drone hovering about the farm yard, even hovering about fifty foot up looking towards the front room window, rather intrusive. I looked about for an operator but could not spot him, probably on high ground behind. Just being nosey likely but who knows.

At  this point I had enough and slapped a battery into my hot motored Zaggi wing and went for an interception. He soon scarpered when he saw the Zaggi closing in. 😁 

[MattyB]

5 hours ago, Robin Colbourne said:

I appreciate that the multi-rotor pilots contracted to estate agents have a job to do, however it seems that some can't help but extend their brief to include a low level snoop around nearby properties.  On two separate occasions, a local house that is going on the market soon, has had drones taking pictures, which has included low level BVLOS (Beyond Visual Line of Sight) flights around my garden and those of neighbours.
I spoke to one of the pilots, who assured me everything he was doing was legal.  As a result, I checked the CAA's rules, but cannot find anything which permits one person BVLOS or low level flying over adjacent properties, cars, people etc. (below roof top height).   I can imagine if it was for a police or missing person search, rules may be different due to the urgency and importance of a success, however that was not the case in this instance.
I suggested to the pilot that residents might reasonably think that an unknown drone flying around their house and garden could be 'casing the joint' to see if was worth burgling.  The pilot dismissed this and said he thought I was being over dramatic, although my view seems to be shared with others locally who have experienced similar.

Do these flights for estate agents have a separate set of rules that I have not yet found or are the pilots playing fast and loose with the current regulations?
 

Don’t waste your time talking to these guys - they know well and good that that kind of flying is illegal. Instead grab your phone and take some video of the drone and pilot in question flying illegally , and call the police to report it too ! That is the only thing that will change their behaviour. In the long run

Edited July 20 by MattyB

[Engine Doctor]

A neighbour was flying his drone from his garden and flying along the houses with camera pointing to the windows .Our local PCSO is a big lad ,the sun goes in when he stands in front of you, went round and had a quiet word.  No flying since . Some drone flyers are still ignorant of the laws about flying, other choose to be ignorant and some are just arrogant and think the law doesnt apply to them. 

Its just the same with our flyers although FW or helicopters do require skill to fly whereas a drone can be flown by anyone with all the electronics doing the tricky stuff. It wont change any time soon. 

Do as MattyB says . In our society its the only option that is if the police have the manpower . 

Smashing joke by Jethro about police availability but not suitable for afamily forum   

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

On 21/07/2024 at 12:41, Engine Doctor said:

flying along the houses with camera pointing to the windows

If you look at the camera footage with the drone and other cameras, you won't see anything, they are really wide angle lenses, to give you an idea my Gopro will fit my 10-metre swimming pool in less than 10 meters from it, as for windows,,,, it's all a storm in a teacup.🤢

 

I used my drone this week to set up my sky satellite using my drone, the tv is 1 meter wide, I had my drone at less than 50 cm from it, so to see into a window it would have to actually touch it ( my opinion).

[Christopher Wolfe]

16 minutes ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

If you look at the camera footage with the drone and other cameras, you won't see anything, they are really wide angle lenses, to give you an idea my Gopro will fit my 10-metre swimming pool in less than 10 meters from it, as for windows,,,, it's all a storm in a teacup.🤢

 

Exactly Paul.

 

I have used my drone to inspect neighbours gutters and solar panels and have to hover within a few meters to gather useful information.

Searching for stray cattle required a hefty investment in a thermal camera that just detected (mainly) kangaroos.

 

* Chris *

 

[Rich Griff]

Kangaroos ! In blighty !

 

A sign has gone up in the quarry, no drones...

 

Seen some recent YouTube footage of local quarries via drones, thanks a bunch guys, grrrrrrrrr..........

Edited September 14 by Rich Griff

[GrumpyGnome]

Some people are their own worst enemies....

 

[Engine Doctor]

3 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

If you look at the camera footage with the drone and other cameras, you won't see anything, they are really wide angle lenses, to give you an idea my Gopro will fit my 10-metre swimming pool in less than 10 meters from it, as for windows,,,, it's all a storm in a teacup.🤢

 

I used my drone this week to set up my sky satellite using my drone, the tv is 1 meter wide, I had my drone at less than 50 cm from it, so to see into a window it would have to actually touch it ( my opinion).

There are other lenses available 

[MattyB]

7 hours ago, Paul De Tourtoulon said:

If you look at the camera footage with the drone and other cameras, you won't see anything, they are really wide angle lenses, to give you an idea my Gopro will fit my 10-metre swimming pool in less than 10 meters from it, as for windows,,,, it's all a storm in a teacup.🤢

 

I used my drone this week to set up my sky satellite using my drone, the tv is 1 meter wide, I had my drone at less than 50 cm from it, so to see into a window it would have to actually touch it ( my opinion).

Probably true at a practical level, but doesn’t mean that illegal operations should be condoned. The key point here is that the operators in question have all signed up that they understand and will fly in accordance with the drone code, but aren’t doing so - that places their and all other model flyers  access to lower level  airspace at potential risk in the long run if it’s seen to continue. We really don’t want any more ineffectual or over-reaching  regs imposed on ius please just  becausea a few idiots don’t think the rules apply to them. 

Edited September 14 by MattyB

[john davidson 1]

A friend who was  into Quads early, built his own etc. did several surveys for the local archaeological society, hilltop forts and such was asked to do the same for a listed building in the town centre. he proposed to do it very early morning and contacted the police. They wanted him to notify every flatholder for flfty yards and lnsure for millions, cant recall exactly , but it was impossible to comply so never did the survey. Covering their back I suppose

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

22 hours ago, Engine Doctor said:

There are other lenses available 

Yes, I have a few, and an electronic 'switcher' to change from one camera to another, but unless you have a proper stabilized gimble you still won't see much,

it's paranoia taking over.

[Engine Doctor]

Doesnt really matter paul. I dont want any drones flying around my property possibly casing it ! Nothing to do with paranoia its called reality . 

[Ron Gray]

21 hours ago, john davidson 1 said:

A friend who was  into Quads early, built his own etc. did several surveys for the local archaeological society, hilltop forts and such was asked to do the same for a listed building in the town centre. he proposed to do it very early morning and contacted the police. They wanted him to notify every flatholder for flfty yards and lnsure for millions, cant recall exactly , but it was impossible to comply so never did the survey. Covering their back I suppose

It’s common practice, and should be written in your risk assessment procedure document, that when operating in urban areas the police (and sometimes fire brigade), power company (overhead cables), telecoms company and local authority are notified / consulted (road / footpath closures) and all local inhabitants and shop owners are ‘letter dropped’ to make them aware. Commercial drone operator’s insurance should cover such operations. I used to do it and the amount of ‘necessary’ bureaucracy got so much that I gave it up and sold my drone equipment.

[MattyB]

5 hours ago, Engine Doctor said:

Doesnt really matter paul. I dont want any drones flying around my property possibly casing it ! Nothing to do with paranoia its called reality . 

Completely agree. We do not want our bed idiots operating in this way and giving our hobby a bad name. In the eyes of the general public. 

[MattyB]

On 20/07/2024 at 17:22, J D 8 - Moderator said:

 While dispensation can be obtained for many services [ My former Coastguard rescue team now has access to a rescue drone which would qualify]  I very much doubt an estate agent drone taking "house for sale pics" flying low in a neighbour's would qualify.

   

I agree and certainly no dispensation would be given for BVLOS ops for s for getting pics does a house sale as there is absolutely  reason for that being required in order to complete the task! 

[Ron Gray]

You can get BVLOS dispensation for property surveys, although I never did any for house sales though!

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, Ron Gray said:

You can get BVLOS dispensation for property surveys, although I never did any for house sales though!

In theory yes, but why would you need tBVLOS  when you could just stand on the threshold of the property with your sap otter  and do such a flight easily  within VLOS?