Yet another septuagenarian

[InvictusBob]

Hello all

Just signed up after a year of subscribing to RCM&E and about 55 years since my last model. Reading between the lines I'm amongst many returning to the hobby in their 70s. As my last model was single channel, rudder only, I've a lot to catch up on. I'll switch to the Beginners section next to ask some very basic questions about radio gear. My renewed interest coincided with a move to Cornwall where the weather unfortunately seems rarely suitable for model flying which might explain the low level of activity here. The BMFA website does list a club quite close to me but its membership is described as "restricted". An email to the secretary elicited a prompt reply to the effect that there were no vacancies, please go away. I can only assume that its not really a flying club but a cover for a Cornish smuggling operation!

Bob

[kc]

Welcome to the forum Bob.

Almost all clubs start their membership year in January and therefore have vacancies in January or February so try again then.   But membership is dropping in many clubs so it would be surprising if you couldn't get in if a serious local based flyer -  I imagine they might try to fend off holiday visitors.

 

Radio gear will have already been covered many times so look through the forum.   Basically the info is always same - buy 2.4 ghz,  dont buy secondhand unless you know the seller, and you probably want the same as your instructor in order to use a buddy system so find out what the instructors fly ( Spektrum is very common but local opinion varies)  You probably only need 6 channels so a fairly basic set will do, don't buy any Tx without memories and a screen to set all the options = avoid cheap trainers with these very basic Tx which won't be useful for future models.   Check what Mode the local clubs fly to see if it is what you  have used already.  ( Mode 2 is common now )   Tx can be switched from Mode 2 to Mode 1 in the software now ( if the Tx has a screen for options )

 

Ask questions on this forum and no doubt you will get useful replies.

 

Edited September 29 by kc

[InvictusBob]

Thanks, very useful. I will try again as you suggest.

Bob

[2.4g Shaun]

Hi Bob, 

This is a circular hobby; a large group of retro modellers still fly single channel, reeds and galloping ghost but with modern versions using 2.GHz radio and servos to replace rubber driven escapements. Still use 1 press for right, 2 for left and a quick blip for throttle  Have a look at the www.mode-zero.uk .

 

Cheers,

 

Shaun.

Edited September 29 by 2.4g Shaun
Typo

[InvictusBob]

Thanks Shaun, but I'm really looking forward to diving into on-board Raspberry Pi controllers etc. 

Bob

[2.4g Shaun]

1 hour ago, InvictusBob said:

Thanks Shaun, but I'm really looking forward to diving into on-board Raspberry Pi controllers etc. 

Bob

We use Arduino boards to emulate the old signalling  typically with Lemon or FrSky rf hack modules plus complete  home designed 8 channel  nRf propo sets with bespoke code,  multi memories , packed with features that many current sets would like to have.

Hundreds have been built and successfully flown, along with 3D printed home designed servos , stick units, even a Rand style galloping ghost actuator.  

Not a BC108 to be seen. 😄

 

21st century tech not 1970's

 

Shaun. 

Edited September 29 by 2.4g Shaun

[David Davis]

Welcome from me too Bob. I hope that you find a club willing to accept you. You'll find that lots of things have changed since your single channel days: Almost Ready To Fly models, some of them made out of styro foam and powered by electric motors, four-strokes, buddy boxes which allow the instructor's transmitter to connect to the learner's and silencers! Most clubs have a dedicated trainer which they allow you to use before you commit yourself.

 

Though many kit producers from the past are no longer trading, companies like Ben Buckle produce a range of vintage kits which are in my view highly suitable as ab initio trainers if you fancied building your own model. https://www.benbucklevintage.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1.

 

Alternatively, Belair Kits, offer short-kits or plan packs where they cut out all of the difficult stuff and you have to provide the balsa strip, sheet and block. https://www.belairdigital.co.uk/itemsection.asp?id=50

[GrumpyGnome]

Welcome Bob!

 

What are you planning to do with a Raspberry Pi ?

[Cuban8]

Welcome to back to the hobby, Bob. So sorry to hear that you've had a false start in the way of finding a club - from your description, not exactly very

friendly in tone. "Restricted" indeed.

Don't be put off, it might just be the way an individual tends to be in his little fiefdom within that particular group - chances are the club itself is fine. It does happen, and I've had experience of this sort of nonsense in the past.

To put it bluntly, if you've stumbled across a not very happy bunch of old curmudgeons, better to find out now rather than later.

Good luck and hopefully you'll be up and away very soon.

Edited September 30 by Cuban8

[GrumpyGnome]

Possibly worth a visit anyway. They may gave a specific implementation of "restricted".....

[kc]

Bob, I think you will see from RCME and the forum that most people use at least throttle,elevator, rudder and ailerons in their power models or just rudder, elevator& throttle in vintage models etc.   The single channel enthusiasts are very much in the minority!    Clearly single channel is possible and you can use just normal 4 or 6 channel proportional for just the one channel if you want and you need no electronic knowledge for that.    So don't be mislead by the minority  - unless you want to!

 

'Restricted'  might just mean that club requires an A certificate to fly solo ( meaning they don't train newcomers ) or might mean numbers are kept low for noise or parking reasons or might mean no drones or helicopters.   Persist if it's local to you, but look around for other clubs to see what they do.  

[Phil Green]

51 minutes ago, kc said:

 The single channel enthusiasts are very much in the minority!    Clearly single channel is possible and you can use just normal 4 or 6 channel proportional for just the one channel if you want and you need no electronic knowledge for that.    So don't be mislead by the minority  - unless you want to!

Thank you KC. We have put an awful lot of time and effort into the single-channel and retro-R/C revival, now in its 15th year.  We have helped many hundreds of older flyers from all around the world relive their earliest days of R/C and the joy and wonderment expressed in their feedback has always exceeded their expectations. Our annual "Single-Channel & Retro R/C" event typically attracts 150 flyers, more than most club events I would suggest.  By way of comparison, our club 'Scale' event took 6 entries. That you personally have no interest is of no concern to us, but please dont put down the sincere and dedicated efforts of others who are actually contributing a 'new' genre to the R/C hobby 🙂

 

[InvictusBob]

What an amazing response, I feel like I've joined a club already! I will pursue the local club, it has a reasonably up to date website so perhaps I caught the secretary on a bad day.

I'm more interested in design and build than flying to be honest but I do need to learn to fly! I've been practicing with PicaSim and a cheap X-box controller and I can now land in simulated blustery conditions! Taking a cue from the recent Correx articles I'm thinking that a cheap sacrificial trainer might be my first project. My life-long ambition has been to build a much more sophisticated ornithopter than we've seen so far and it seems that technology in all areas has finally reached the stage where that might be possible without a military sized budget. This would require a semi-autonomous control of some sort hence the Raspberry Pi or Arduino etc. 

However, before diving into that, I feel totally ignorant about the radio gear I see advertised. If Futaba advertises an 8 channel Tx but puts in brackets 16 channel SBUS, does the 8 channel refer to PWM only? If yes, then with only two sticks how are the other 4 PWM channels controlled? Transmitters are festooned with switches which presumably only have two or three positions so I presume they wouldn't use a PWM channel. 

I'm also baffled by the prices. I can't afford over a grand for a Futaba system but on the other hand, from what I've read so far, ELRS does what I need and a Radiomaster unit appears to offer this at a fraction of the price. 

This is why I need to join a club and just talk to a few people who can put me straight!

Many thanks for everyone's input.

Bob
 

[kc]

Bob,

Most of us use 5 channels at least - an extra channel for separate aileron servos (although we can use a Y lead  and use just 4 channel. ) Another channel for retracts, perhaps another for flaps too and those use switches.   So 6 or 7 channels is enough for most of us, although glider people seem to like more switches to play with.    

I think I am correct in saying that nobody at my club uses a thousand pound Tx but if they do it doesn't show!   Just a good Tx that is 100 percent reliable and not too expensive to scrap if it is troublesome is all that is needed.

 

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

1 hour ago, InvictusBob said:

My life-long ambition has been to build a much more sophisticated ornithopter

Welcome aboard Bob, I also would love to make and fly one, but as I get older precision has gone out of the window.

As for a radio, go for 8 channels, although you might never need 8 channels the difference in cost from 6 channels is negligible, but the scope of mixes etc. is really much better.

[kc]

Phil,  I tried to steer a returnee or any newcomer towards sensible and mainstream choice of gear to spend their money on. 

Frankly I have never understood why people bothered with galloping ghost etc in this day and age, however your comment  "  the joy and wonderment expressed in their feedback "  perhaps explained it a bit.  I reckon I would be the same if someone gave me a chance to drive my first car again  ( 1935 Morris 8 )  I would be thrilled for a while but I wouldn't swop my Toyota auto hybrid with SatNav for it!    So I advised Bob corectly I think -gave him the info and it's his choice now.

Edited September 30 by kc

[GrumpyGnome]

1 hour ago, kc said:

Bob,

Most of us use 5 channels at least - an extra channel for separate aileron servos (although we can use a Y lead  and use just 4 channel. ) Another channel for retracts, perhaps another for flaps too and those use switches.   So 6 or 7 channels is enough for most of us, although glider people seem to like more switches to play with.    

I think I am correct in saying that nobody at my club uses a thousand pound Tx but if they do it doesn't show!   Just a good Tx that is 100 percent reliable and not too expensive to scrap if it is troublesome is all that is needed.

 

Even in our little club we have a few fliers with £1000+ transmitters (WELL in excess of £1000)....... more with sub £100 FlySky sets though 🙂 - the models don't seem to care

[Phil Green]

1 hour ago, kc said:

Phil,  I tried to steer a returnee or any newcomer towards sensible and mainstream choice of gear to spend their money on.

I have no problem with that, a wise suggestion. My point was that you accused 'our minority' of misleading him and belittled 'our' genre, when in fact you've no idea how many happy single-channel users there are.  Personally I dont have a figure either - but I've made over 1200 (at cost, non profit), and I expect there are many more  🙂
I have zero interest in jets (another minority R/C genre) but I dont criticise or disparage the advice of those who do.

[Nigel Dell]

22 minutes ago, Phil Green said:

I have no problem with that, a wise suggestion. My point was that you accused 'our minority' of misleading him and belittled 'our' genre, when in fact you've no idea how many happy single-channel users there are.  Personally I dont have a figure either - but I've made over 1200 (at cost, non profit), and I expect there are many more  🙂
I have zero interest in jets (another minority R/C genre) but I dont criticise or disparage the advice of those who do.

Agreed Phil as one of your happy customers! Single channel and multi channel, I have enjoyed my S/C experience not having done it before, radio assist F/F rubber, electric and i.c. and who knew the wild ride of a shark face! 😂 variety is the spice of life they say.

I also slope, large scale or whatever else takes my fancy but like you jets don’t really float my boat as yet, like to see them and see the appeal but I have to exhaust other avenues yet.

[Nigel Dell]

3 hours ago, InvictusBob said:

My life-long ambition has been to build a much more sophisticated ornithopter than we've seen so far and it seems that technology in all areas has finally reached the stage where that might be possible without a military sized budget. This would require a semi-autonomous control of some sort hence the Raspberry Pi or Arduino etc. 

 

 

Bob

thats an interesting project, years ago when I worked at Slough radio control models they imported from the US kits of a mechanical 

 marvel IIRC about 30” to 40” span and they flew very well, I will try to kick start the brain cell into life and see if I can remember the details not sure it is around anymore but it might feed the enthusiasm.

[Phil Green]

Hobbyking did a large ornithopter a few years ago, might be a source of ideas or even parts, maybe if you're lucky on ebay a complete model!  😉

 

 

Edited September 30 by Phil Green

[InvictusBob]

But Phil, where would be the fun in that?

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Welcome to the forum Bob.

 

[kc]

47 minutes ago, Phil Green said:

My point was that you accused 'our minority' of misleading him

Phil I did not accuse anybody of misleading! 

What I actually said was  " So don't be mislead by the minority  - unless you want to! "    which was a perfectly reasonable suggestion not an accusation and just a hint to ensure one acts on good advice. 

  

I still think it is wise to advise newcomers / returnees to buy 'mainstream' Rc equipment ( i.e. multi channel ), and spend their money on the equipment that is of most use to them.   I have not seen push button RC used ever in any club or at any show  that I attended in the last 39 years!   Obviously there are some users somewhere but I have never seen it used for planes - articles in magazines perhaps but not actually seen around here.  

 

[2.4g Shaun]

KC,

You've  totally missed the point of my original post re single channel. I wasn't advocating Bob should use it , just letting him know that after many years it still has a following because he mentioned the fact that he had an interest in electronics (raspberry  pi) and that's why I responded.  Most retro radio builders and flyers have a similar interest as well as Arduino coding. It's a big hobby, with many different  aspects to enjoy. There's more to it than foamy artf's. Thinking less linear it's far  more rewarding.