What happening to our hobby ?

[flying daddy]

Sitting in bed in a lot of pain waiting for a replacement knee opp so completely bored out of my brain.So trying to make the day go faster .What is happening to our hobby .Been browsing through the model kits and found most of the kits are out if stock ,with no idea when they be back in stock .Most of Seagull Models are out of stock,even though the supplier has just had a container from Seagull delivered.Not their fault  it seems us in the UK are right at the bottom of the pile.With the US and Europe taking priority  over us .Also most Model Cubs are struggling with their membership with the youngsters just not interested in flying model aircraft.Most of the big Model Shows gone.Makes me wonder where our hobby is going

Edited October 15 by flying daddy

[payneib]

It's dying. Not quite dead yet, but it's getting there. 

 

On a broader spectrum, importing anything to the UK always relied on the benefits of EU membership. As a standalone entity "UK PLC" was always further down the list, but as a member of one of the two or three biggest trading blocks on the planet, it didn't matter. Now we're a tiny niche market, and for an industry that only serves a tiny niche, there's little to no point concentrating on a UK supply. As for UK, home grown suppliers, now more than ever it's down to batch supplying - there just isn't the number of kit builders to keep constant supply chains open. I've got one on order, and another to order. That'll be me sorted for the next couple of years WRT kit purchases. 

 

As for flying sites/clubs. There is plenty of space, even if many areas are changing/moving due to urban expansion. There are two or three real issues with flying space:

Farming pressures making those little corners of fields we all know and love less available for playing toy aeroplanes. 

The proliferation of moaning Karens who are just incapable of letting people exist and have fun in any way. 

And a general "grumpy old man syndrome" when it comes to clubs. The practitioners of this hobby are not happy unless they've got something to complain about!

 

As for membership/uptake, there is a huge gap between the current membership and the ones that need targeting for recruitment, but then there always was. When I was building Guillows kits in the 90s, and my dad was (badly) flying slope soarers, he was the only 40ish guy at the club, surrounded by 60+ year olds. It's no different now. Guys need to stop seeing their hobby as time off from family, and start getting them out there. Got the grandkids for the weekend? Take them flying. If you're retired you've got plenty of time to go flying on your own during the week. 

[Masher]

1 hour ago, flying daddy said:

Sitting in bed in a lot of pain waiting for a replacement knee opp so completely bored out of my brain.So trying to make the day go faster .What is happening to our hobby .Been browsing through the model kits and found most of the kits are out if stock ,with no idea when they be back in stock .Most of Seagull Models are out of stock,even though the supplier has just had a container from Seagull delivered.Not their fault  it seems us in the UK are right at the bottom of the pile.With the US and Europe taking priority  over us .Also most Model Cubs are struggling with their membership with the youngsters just not interested in flying model aircraft.Most of the big Model Shows gone.Makes me wonder where our hobby is going

If there were loads of kits in stock, how many would you buy? Where do you get the idea that most clubs are struggling with their membership, my 2 clubs are doing fine 1 has a waiting list. How many shows do you go to? There may be less than there used to be but still some good ones being held. I think the pain of your knee may be making you take a negative look at our hobby?

[flying daddy]

You could be right Masher 

[EvilC57]

Not quite dead yet. Our club has had several guys in their 30s and 40s join just this year, which i admit is unusual, but at least it’s happening.

[Masher]

I always am 😁

 

BTW I have some sympathy for how you are feeling, my wife had a knee replaced on Saturday!

[flying daddy]

That is good to hear .Think Masher is correct I just feeling sorry for myself and missing not being able to fly at the moment 😒

[Chris Walby]

Get on the simulator and practice those rolling circles 🙂 

 

Enjoy the hobby for what it has to offer as once its gone its not coming back.

[flying daddy]

👍

[Robin Colbourne]

Could it be that the 30 to 40 year olds are either spending time with their families, working overtime to pay for their families, because of their family don't have the surplus funds to spend on hobbies, or if they don't have families are off doing more physical, energetic activities whilst their bodies will allow them to do so?
From what I've seen, there are plenty of younger people using R/C equipment, the larger proportion of them just don't choose to do so in the traditional club environment.
Whilst I agree that clubs should encourage new members of all ages, the retirees are the ones with the time, money and space to build and fly the sort of models that get flown at club sites.

With regard to the stock that wholesalers and shops have, the story was no different in the early 2000s when I worked part time in a model shop.  Unless it was a new offering, the distributors only imported what they had already sold to shops, and even then you could find that the manufacturer had not made another batch of that item in time for the container leaving China or wherever, so you still didn't get it.

Flying Daddy, I wish you all the best with your knee op, and hope you have a speedy recovery.  As Chris Walby says, get that simulator earning its keep and amaze the guys at the field when you eventually get back there!

 

Edited October 15 by Robin Colbourne

[GrumpyGnome]

When I joined my first club in early 70's they were bemoaning the death of the hobby (cb radio I think).

 

After that came ARTFs - also killing the hobby.

 

Then the involvement (minimal atm) was going to kill the hobby.

 

Oh, and computer games and the internet... 

 

And, unfortunately, the times we live in that means little Johnny can't go fly toy planes with the old bloke up the road - he has to be accompanied by a parent (busy) or grandparent (infirm). Sweeping generalisations of course.

 

It is, always has been, evolving. It'll only die if we let it.

 

And, as far as I recall, the make-up of every club I've belonged to (5) had an average age north of 50 - typically they have more free time and/or disposable income. Hard to believe but in 2 of those clubs I was by far the youngest member.

[Paul De Tourtoulon]

It's the same in France, no kits in stock and the seagull kits are more expensive than the finished plane 12 months ago and double the cost 5 years ago !.

 Eu and French laws that came in with the drones, killed the model world with the help of smart phones.

 

Good luck with the Knee, my wife had one done 2 years ago, patience, and me lucky to only do in my shoulder 'again' for the third time in 18 years,

sling came off 4 days ago after 3 1/2 weeks, 'twas just a scratch'.

[Lipo Man]

The shining star in this particular firmament is Flitetest. They have built a huge audience on YouTube, and then built a business selling kits off the back of it. They may not be the prettiest models, but they generally fly well, they’re cheap and they don’t take long to build. Seems to me that’s the gateway drug into the hobby. Watch any video of one of their “FliteFest” events - huge crowded “build tents” with multiple generations from families building planes together and then going straight to the field to fly them. I think that’s the model to grow the hobby again. 

[Robin Colbourne]

3 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

And, unfortunately, the times we live in that means little Johnny can't go fly toy planes with the old bloke up the road - he has to be accompanied by a parent (busy) or grandparent (infirm). Sweeping generalisations of course.

Grumpy Gnome, exactly this.  When I was at school, the number of children with single or divorced parents was very, very low.  Now it is possibly more common than a mother and father living together with their own children.  The number of boys (because, like it or lump it, our hobby appeals primarily to males) living with a full-time father figure (who might take an interest in the hobby himself) is diminishing all the time.  
Parents are having to juggle their time between their other children, stepchildren and a myriad of other calls on their time, so the idea of spending a large chunk of their daylight weekend hours standing around at a flying field waiting for little Johnny to get a few minutes of an instructor's time, is unlikely to happen.   If the child is really obsessed about model flying, then a flight simulator and a gyro-stabilised electric model they can fly by themselves in a local park will seem like a wise purchase.

[Phil Green]

This is a recurrent & depressing topic but one observation I've made over & over is how many are totally fixated one one small sub-genre of R/C, never straying outside  their niche.

We see it at our club - flyers who will only fly jets - "anything else is a toy" - others who will only fly big petrol 3D models, wouldnt be seen dead with an 'ordinary' model.  Some who will fly nothing but scale - "your Wot4 isnt a real aeroplane".  And "gliders? Pfft. No engine?" - and so on. 

Terry's novelty models are amazing, Dumbo the flying elephant, the Witch on her broomstick, Superman, etc but try as he might he cannot get anyone to even try a novelty model.   How many here have flown a model rocket?   When did you last fly C/L?   Its frequently electric now!!!

Drones. Yes, they've caused us some difficulties, but they're here to stay and flying one 'for real' really helps develop orientation skills.
This self-imposed tunnel-vision is an unfortunate limitation - although its a minority hobby, there are a gazillion avenues to explore.   

At least a gazillion, maybe more 🙂

Locally across several clubs in the area we've coaxed a lot more into our slope soaring group, including many first-timers - all loving it.

The Retro R/C scene shows no sign of slowing - the completeness of flying a 1970s model with a Merco and a Skyleader radio is unbeatable! 🙂

R/C-oriented homebrew electronics is also on the up, it doesnt have to be complicated to be satisfying, and its so easy to share now.

And of course our roots - single-channel and Reeds. More than anything, all this is brain food, you never stop learning. 

Maybe we have too much choice, maybe the options are bewildering - but trying something different to your regular Sunday hack really can be an eye-opener, and ultimately, maybe expand the hobby!  🙂

[/2p]

Cheers

Phil

 

 

 

Edited October 15 by Phil Green
typo

[payneib]

13 minutes ago, Phil Green said:

   How many here have flown a model rocket?   When did you last fly C/L?   

 

I must admit, it does get a bit "samey" up the field, until I pull something weird out. Most of your post falls under the "grumpy old men" aspect of the hobby I mentioned above. These are the same people who hear the suggestion, "lets mow more of the field to make life easier for beginners and help keep bigger models in one piece", and respond with, "people should just be better at flying". 

 

Edited October 15 by payneib

[Seabee]

Possibly not dying but evolving. It used to be that if you wanted a plane you had to build it which required time, space, skill and some determination. Now ARTFs are made with a precision that few builders can match and sold at a price which can be less than something hand built due to the escalating cost of balsa and associated materials. If the demand dries up then eventually the supply does as well.

 

For me now building is more satisfying than flying and looking round at the models at our field I am clearly in a small minority. However it appears to me that model plane flying has never been so accessible with inexpensive radio gear and good flying ARTFs. The technology evolves and changes our behaviour. Look how smart phones have just about eradicated the camera market apart from the semi-professional equipment. If I wanted to get into model flying now rather than in the 1950s I doubt I would have ever embarked on building.

 

[PDB]

3 minutes ago, Seabee said:

Possibly not dying but evolving.

 

 

Building techniques are evolving.

 

Balsa kits and plans were once the only way of creating a flying model, not anymore. For example the various types of foamboard and 3D printing.

[Cuban8]

Let's face it, our hobby is very much like the young Curate's egg i.e. good in parts. Newcomers to the hobby who have no knowledge or experience of model flying and how it was conducted forty plus years ago will generally accept the present situation and go with the flow - they'll either make something of it to suit themselves or they won't. TBH, it's always been that way.

Tiptoeing delicately around the no politics edict (quite right too) - mention was made above about the effect of non EU membership being the root cause of not being able to get one's favourite ARTFs any more. All I can say to that is for some reason I have had absolutely no problem with buying phones, TVs, computers, white goods, kids toys and other general household ephemera - the vast majority of which finds its way to us from the Far East or Eastern EU countries. Clearly something else is at work as regards modelling goods and their availability, whether in or out of the EU situation, it seems to me.

Clubs? yes, most are doing OK at the moment - some better than others - again, not a new situation although back in the day the supply of new recruits to the hobby was higher so turnover of membership could be dealt with more easily. We're all doing our best to keep things going, but the fact is that along with many other previously popular activities our hobby is steadily contracting.

I read the other day that there is a crisis in live music. A once large and vibrant industry is facing a very uncertain future because of all sorts of pressures - both practical and financial. We're not on our own.

BMFA membership and finance figures will be very interesting and hopefully the fall in members will have been stemmed and the association's finances will be on a better footing after the changes put in place recently. If the trend is still downward then that will be very concerning indeed.

 

[Ron Gray]

18 hours ago, Phil Green said:

This self-imposed tunnel-vision is an unfortunate limitation

Not necessarily! If you want to be good at doing something then you have to practice which usually means restricting your flying to a particular model type. I don’t mind others who stick rigidly to one model type and I certainly don’t criticise them for doing that, it’s their choice, as long as they don’t poo-poo others for doing what they want to.

 

18 hours ago, payneib said:

people should just be better at flying". 

There’s a lot of truth in that, it’s a bit like those who won’t fly because the wind is in the wrong direction which means a cross wind take off / landing - learning to cope with those conditions will mean more flying days. Ditto stronger wind conditions.

[GrumpyGnome]

18 hours ago, payneib said:

I must admit, it does get a bit "samey" up the field, until I pull something weird out. Most of your post falls under the "grumpy old men" aspect of the hobby I mentioned above. These are the same people who hear the suggestion, "lets mow more of the field to make life easier for beginners and help keep bigger models in one piece", and respond with, "people should just be better at flying". 

I had a long think before responding to this........

 

Belonging to the same club as you, I don't recognise any 'grumpy old men' making comments like Phil mentioned. There's a bit of banter certainly, but nobody is really grumpy. And any and all models are welcomed..... except Turbines of course. Yes, I know someone has a strong opinion regarding changing the runway layout, but he's not grumpy. and has been actively trying to attract new members by attending local fetes etc..  So he's just voicing an opinion.  Doesn't voicing strong views about electric models classify as a 'grumpy old man' comment? 

 

As regards the mowing, beginners tend to fly smaller, generally foam, lighter models, that easily land in the 38 metre plus circle, catering for any wind direction. The call for runway changes, and more grass mowing, generally comes from experienced fliers, with larger/faster models - unless other members are unhappy, but don't respond to requests for suggestions to improve things. 

 

I'd happily have 90% of the field mown as a mahoosive great runway, but the mowing volunteers (90% of the time just 2 of us), whilst happy to spend a hour a week during the summer mowing, really don't really want to spend a whole morning/afternoon mowing each week...................  while the mower/driver were out of action this summer, I did just that, 6 times, mowing using a push along petrol mower - enough for me! So unless the lack of volunteers changes dramatically, and members volunteer to store and use the mower on a regular basis, the mown area needs to stay a similar area (more than 2000 square metres).  Having experienced 5 summers of struggling to get volunteers to cover a few weeks holiday in the summer, I won't hold my breath!  And as you know, we can't store the mower at the field. as we don't have a suitable structure, neither can we add one.  Nor can we store it offsite in a location that doesn't require use of the trailer to transport it to and from the field.  The review of the field layout discussed at the AGM is underway, and a recommendation will go to all members around January, for a democratic vote.

 

For me, flying orders of magnitude more often than you, I never find it 'samey' - there's always something new to learn, or polish. I can happily fly a few tanks out just practicing landing, for example..... and my landings from the West end of the old horizontal runway are by far the worst, so next time I am there on my own, that's what I'll practice.  Having a selection of models helps of course.

 

And personally, I think negative social media content could well stop prospective members visiting or joining a club - I personally wouldn't want to go anywhere near a club which supposedly has short, narrow, rough runways, where the grass is poorly maintained, and is full of grumpy old men who are resistant to change.  However, I would visit or join a club with well maintained multiple runways to cater for most wind directions, volunteers who mow at least once a week during the summer, a laid back atmosphere, no time or noise restrictions, members who are willing to teach new fliers, and who are accommodating to models other than rc, in a beautiful location. Oh hang on, that's our club!

Edited October 16 by GrumpyGnome

[payneib]

15 minutes ago, Ron Gray said:

There’s a lot of truth in that, it’s a bit like those who won’t fly because the wind is in the wrong direction which means a cross wind take off / landing - learning to cope with those conditions will mean more flying days. Ditto stronger wind conditions.

Gate keeping access based on perceived ability has never, not once, in the history of all things, ever helped improve attendance/involvement in any activity. 

 

If you're insisting that beginners should be penalised for mistakes, or that experienced people should face greater risk with larger/more intricate models, when there's a simple solution available, you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

 

If I put a years work, and a mortgage payment(+) in to a model, I'll choose to fly it when and where I know a simple mistake won't needlesslly put it in a bin bag. 

Edited October 16 by payneib

[Brian Cooper]

23 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

And, unfortunately, the times we live in that means little Johnny can't go fly toy planes with the old bloke up the road - he has to be accompanied by a parent (busy) or grandparent (infirm). Sweeping generalisations of course.

This is indeed true in a vast number of instances. 

However, I am the "old bloke up the road" and it never ceases to amaze me how parents are perfectly  happy to throw their children at me. . . Lol. 

 

Mind you, having an established, healthy track record of engaging with children, and current DBS documents probably helps. 

This is certainly helpful re: taking youngsters flying.  They enjoy the sessions, but it is still ridiculously difficult to get modern kids to continue in the hobby. 

 

But if they have at least had a taste of model flying, maybe it will ignite a flame which might develop in later years. 

 

As an aside, I also teach children how to shoot. 

Getting them interested in shooting is very easy and, with parental consent, they are always eager to get involved in the sport. 

Such is life...

 

[leccyflyer]

1 hour ago, GrumpyGnome said:

I had a long think before responding to this........

 

Belonging to the same club as you, I don't recognise any 'grumpy old men' making comments like Phil mentioned. There's a bit of banter certainly, but nobody is really grumpy. And any and all models are welcomed..... except Turbines of course. Yes, I know someone has a strong opinion regarding changing the runway layout, but he's not grumpy. and has been actively trying to attract new members by attending local fetes etc..  So he's just voicing an opinion.  Doesn't voicing strong views about electric models classify as a 'grumpy old man' comment? 

 

Hmmm, you might want to consider a change of user name GG 😉

[Phil Green]

4 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Not necessarily! If you want to be good at doing something then you have to practice which usually means restricting your flying to a particular model type. I don’t mind others who stick rigidly to one model type and I certainly don’t criticise them for doing that, it’s their choice, as long as they don’t poo-poo others for doing what they want to.

 

Sorry Ron of course you're quite right, I'm not good at words - I wasnt suggesting any of our club are grumpy old men, far from it - they're happy to stick to one type and really thats all a hobby needs to do, make you happy. It wasnt intended as a criticism, more an offering - theres  much more out there, and often that leads to new ideas, new venues, new friendships 🙂