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On 10/01/2025 at 10:55, Nigel R said:

 

Minor point of note, use of commercial hobby drones in Ukraine decreased a while ago - Russia worked out they could use the manufacturer's own snooper systems to located both drone and operator, with obvious consequences. Commercial drones tend to rely on GPS which (to probably little surprise) can be jammed/spoofed.

Very interesting item in the DT Ukraine podcast last week (Thurs/Fri I think) worth a listen. Recorded at a Ukrainian drone production facility run by a young couple (pre war-she was a florist and he was a barista) and they describe their production and improvements over the last two years. Essentially, they are successful in designing and building bespoke a/c according to the intended mission, using commercial components. Improvements eg range, sorting cooling issues, are often a result of experimentation and fault resolution.

Apologies for going off topic!

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On 12/01/2025 at 09:18, Outrunner said:

My results were emailed to me after the test together with a link to my certificate. Much to my suprise I passed with 35 out of 40 correct answers. It was so irritating with so many drone orientated questions when I have absolutely no desire to fly a drone. I was pleased to pass though, still life in the old dog!

There are no Drone specific/orientated questions in the RCC. They all relate to model aircraft and most also to drones (free flight not relating to drones)

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17 hours ago, Andy Symons - BMFA said:

There are no Drone specific/orientated questions in the RCC. They all relate to model aircraft and most also to drones (free flight not relating to drones)

 

Mostly agree with you, but a lot of the questions do have a drone flavour.

 

For example some refer to flying when out and about, trips in the country, hiking, mountain-biking.  One mentions flying whilst cycling using a 'follow me' function.  Other talking about being out with friends and using your drone to take selfies. Other talk about flying over festivals, and taking videos of properties and people.

 

Now I agree that you could do this with a fixed-wing aircraft but very unlikely and would be very much the minority.

 

Nor do the scenarios reflect the sort of environments most of us fly in, in a remote field at a BMFA registered club.

 

Actually, I'd go as far as using follow me on a fixed wing whilst cycling would be extremely dangerous.

 

Having said that, I don't have any issue with the questions, they are generally sensible and the correct answers mostly obvious.  And if anyone is really bothered by the questions a quick Google will find the questions and answers before you attempt the test.

 

And remember you can do the test as many times as you want.

Edited by Nigel Heather
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15 minutes ago, Nigel Heather said:

Nor do the scenarios reflect the sort of environments most of us fly in, in a remote field at a BMFA registered club.

When it comes to fliers, we (BMFA Club fliers) are significantly in the minority, so it makes perfect sense to skew the questions towards environments other than those we commonly use......

Edited by GrumpyGnome
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19 hours ago, Andy Symons - BMFA said:

...

 

Question to you Andy

 

I've rejoined via usual club membership, the club put my CAA reg through via BMFA.

 

I can see my CAA expiry is in around 11 months time.

 

However.

 

CAA have just emailed to tell me my operator ID has expired.

 

Do I need to worry about this?

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          One of the questions I failed on was operating in built up areas, something I don't.   Another thing I note is that as far as the CAA is concerned BMFA qualifications do not count in the answers. I was surprised that a drone operator was not required to ensure a flyer operating his equipment was insured.

  Still I passed with 33 correct even though I just winged it. Taken a bit to update my BMFA profile being somewhat a computer noob. 

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46 minutes ago, J D 8 - Moderator said:

          One of the questions I failed on was operating in built up areas, something I don't.   Another thing I note is that as far as the CAA is concerned BMFA qualifications do not count in the answers. I was surprised that a drone operator was not required to ensure a flyer operating his equipment was insured.

  Still I passed with 33 correct even though I just winged it. Taken a bit to update my BMFA profile being somewhat a computer noob. 

I believe that holding third party insurance for drones and model aircraft is non-compulsory, but it's clearly a bad idea to not have cover and  leave oneself open to a potentially ruinous claim in the case  of a very serious incident. The BMFA handbook (sec 14.17) makes no mention of compulsory insurance for very large models over 25kg,  only regs and inspections as to their airworthiness, which did surprise me.

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I keep my kids on the books purely for the insurance. A foamy chuck glider through a neighbours green house (or another club members car window/expensive model at the field) is as covered for them, as any damage us "real" flyers might cause. 

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35 minutes ago, payneib said:

I keep my kids on the books purely for the insurance. A foamy chuck glider through a neighbours green house (or another club members car window/expensive model at the field) is as covered for them, as any damage us "real" flyers might cause. 

Makes sense,

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5 hours ago, Nigel Heather said:

 

For example some refer to flying when out and about, trips in the country, hiking, mountain-biking.  One mentions flying whilst cycling using a 'follow me' function.  Other talking about being out with friends and using your drone to take selfies. Other talk about flying over festivals, and taking videos of properties and people.

 

Now I agree that you could do this with a fixed-wing aircraft but very unlikely and would be very much the minority.

 

Nor do the scenarios reflect the sort of environments most of us fly in, in a remote field at a BMFA registered club.

 

Actually, I'd go as far as using follow me on a fixed wing whilst cycling would be extremely dangerous.

 

Having said that, I don't have any issue with the questions, they are generally sensible and the correct answers mostly obvious.  And if anyone is really bothered by the questions a quick Google will find the questions and answers before you attempt the test.

 

I think you are looking at the CAA DMARES test and not the BMFA RCC test.

 

1. Can you fly your model aircraft or drone out of sight behind trees?
 
 
 
2. You are flying your model aircraft or drone safely at a safe height but there are other people in the vicinity. You notice an air ambulance flying in your direction. What should you do?
 
 
 
3. You want to fly in an empty field near to an airport. The field is outside the airport boundary fence, so is it OK to fly there?
 
 
 
4. How could you check if there are any restrictions on whether you can fly at a particular place?
 
 
 
5. Choose the correct distance to complete this statement. Never fly higher than ________ without appropriate permission or an authorisation
 
 
 
6. Which of these is the main reason for not flying above 400ft without permission or an authorisation?
 
 
 
7. When do you need permission from an airport to fly a model aircraft or drone?
 
 
 
8. You are planning to fly your glider, which has a mass of more than 7.5kg but less than 14kg, from the top of a 150 ft high hill. Which of the following is correct?
 
 
 
9. You’re out flying your model aircraft or drone when it starts to snow. What do you need to consider?
 
 
 
10. You’re out flying your model aircraft or drone in an area you know well. You start to get worried that you might lose sight of your aircraft in the glare of the low winter sun. What should you do?
 
 
 
11. You arrive at a site and want to get ready to fly your model aircraft. Which of the following must you check?
 
 
 
12. Which of the following points about fuel and batteries for your model aircraft or drone are correct?
 
 
 
13. When must you have liability insurance for flying your model aircraft or drone?
 
 
 
14. You fly your model aircraft or drone, and after a flight realise you have accidentally recorded some images from a neighbours private property or even through their window. Which of the following should you do?
 
 
 
15. Which of the following should you think about when flying your model aircraft or drone?
 
 
 
16. When can you fly your model aircraft or drone using First Person View equipment without a competent observer?
 
 
 
17. You are flying your model aircraft or drone using FPV equipment accompanied by a competent observer, which of the following conditions must you comply with?
 
 
 
18. Why should you keep your model aircraft or drone's built-in software (firmware) up to date?
 
 
 
19. The BMFA Article 16 Authorisation permits flight for which of the following purposes?
 
 
 
20. How does the AAIB and the CAA define an Occurrence?
 
 
 
21. Which of the following incidents amounts to a reportable occurrence?
 
 
 
22. What is the minimum age for a CAA registered Operator?
 
 
 
23. Who is directly responsible for the safe operation of an aircraft?
 
 
 
24. Which of the following are acceptable methods for a BMFA member to demonstrate their competence?
 
 
 
25. Before any flight can take place in the Flight Restriction Zone of a Protected Aerodrome, permission must be obtained from whom?
 
 
 
26. Whilst flying, as a Remote Pilot, you should always comply with:
 
 
 
27. Whilst flying, as a Remote Pilot, you should always avoid:
 
 
 
28. According to the Article 16 authorisation, for which of the following must you register as an Operator?
 
 
 
29. As an Operator, you must comply with which of the following?
 
 
 
30. The BMFA Article 16 Authorisation stipulates that model aircraft with a Maximum Take Off Mass between 250g and 7.5kg cannot be operated:
 
 
 
31. The Article 16 Authorisation stipulates that model aircraft with a Maximum Take Off Mass between 7.5kg and 25kg cannot be operated:
 
 
 
32. Aircraft of certain maximum take off masses are outside the scope of the BMFA Article 16 Authorisation and require a separate authorisation, are they:
 
 
 
33. The operation of powered model aircraft within the BMFA Article 16 Authorisation is limited to 400 feet (120m) above the ground, unless which of the following conditions are met?
 
 
 
34. Serious Incidents or other Occurrences must be reported to the CAA as a condition of the BMFA Authorisation, if they involve any of what four circumstances?
 
 
 
35. Any Model Aircraft/drone Operator making use of the BMFA Article 16 Authorisation must ensure that:
 
 
 
36. The BMFA Article 16 Authorisation permits you to give a ‘trial flight’ to a non-member under what conditions?
 
 
 
37. What does the BMFA Article 16 authorisation state with regards to the dropping of articles from a model aircraft or drone?
 
 
 
38. If your model flying club is located within a ‘built up area’ what must it do?
 
 
 
39. With regards to free flight aircraft, which of the following statements is true
 
 
 
40. You must not launch a free flight model aircraft unless:
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3 hours ago, Nigel R said:

 

Question to you Andy

 

I've rejoined via usual club membership, the club put my CAA reg through via BMFA.

 

I can see my CAA expiry is in around 11 months time.

 

However.

 

CAA have just emailed to tell me my operator ID has expired.

 

Do I need to worry about this?

Can you message me your membership number please so I can look in to it. I am sure its easily sorted.

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6 hours ago, Andy Symons - BMFA said:

I think you are looking at the CAA DMARES test and not the BMFA RCC test.

My apologies, yes I was.  I have only ever done the CAA test and to be honest I always assumed that the BMFA one was the same questions but managed by the BMFA on behalf of the CAA.

 

I know different now.

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14 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

About the only consumer drone delivery service that's a success. It really does beggar belief.


Typically as with gun laws, added bureaucracy, control and taxation does little to stem the real problems. 
 

The BMFA has unfortunately (but with good strategic intentions of maintaining a membership base) associated model aircraft flying with drone operation by offering the same insurance for both.  As good willed law abiding citizens, most model flyers are more informed than Joe Bloggs and we are complying with these drone regulations, but the reality is that thousands of drones are purchased from major retailers without any form of required compliance or registration (unlike gun laws) by the seller and the Joes just ignorantly blast about at altitude, remotely in FPV as they feel fit, happily posting away on TokTik, NoJobTube or the like. 

In my ideal dream world, being a member of the BMFA, passing a distinct model flying based RCC every few years and applying your long standing BMFA/SMAE number (as opposed to a Drone Operator ID) would have been enough and that model flying, as with gliding and the BGA, would have been distinct and fully delegated to the BMFA (with some valuable CAA funding along the way 🤣). No camera, munitions, GPS or autonomous control separating a model flyer from a drone operator.  Flyer and operator being key differences here. 

 

But such is life. Maybe this drone association could be unpicked in the future as it does not seem to have been the membership driver it was thought it might. 

 

Back in the bureaucratic reality of the 2025 UK and on a positive, after the confusion for many of the last few months in regards Flyer IDs, our club is offering positive outreach to our less IT capable members in filling any CAA compliance gaps with lighthearted support and training, and this has been well received once you get past any fear or whinging. 👍

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1 hour ago, Merry Mark said:

 🤣No camera, munitions, GPS or autonomous control separating a model flyer from a drone operator.  Flyer and operator being key differences here. 

 

Maybe this drone association could be unpicked in the future as it does not seem to have been the membership driver it was thought it might. 

Munitions aside, you're carving out a number of responsible fliers doing that - not just the rogue and irresponsible multi-rotor operators......

 

I'd have thought it would be better to have them in the tent, than out, as the saying goes. 

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2 hours ago, Merry Mark said:

But such is life. Maybe this drone association could be unpicked in the future as it does not seem to have been the membership driver it was thought it might. 

 

I fly Rockets, FF fixed wing, Control Line, RC fixed wing and drones. 

 

Which association should I join, and how many different insurances do you think is appropriate?

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Tongue in cheek, whenever I see reports of inappropriate drone usage (like over airfields, military bases, private property etc.) I think "simples, they just need to note the Operator ID which will lead them directly to the culprit".

 

In the real world we all know that the vast majority of those that register and label their aircraft are those that do and have always behaved properly.

 

I practically guarantee that when the Police finally identify a drone being inappropriately used there will be no Operator ID on it.

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But one of the things about the registration system is that it makes it very easy to prosecute the miscreant if they are caught or identified. Anyone with a drone in a suspicious circumstances can be brought before the magistrate or judge & if they are not registered it is slam dunk guilty. There is no need to prove intent, endangerment etc or have clever lawyers wiggle the way out of the prosecution.

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29 minutes ago, John Lee said:

But one of the things about the registration system is that it makes it very easy to prosecute the miscreant if they are caught or identified. Anyone with a drone in a suspicious circumstances can be brought before the magistrate or judge & if they are not registered it is slam dunk guilty. There is no need to prove intent, endangerment etc or have clever lawyers wiggle the way out of the prosecution.

“Caught with a drone”,  contrary to what law. Caught flying, red handed, different matter, easier said than done. Trying to prove it afterwards, “what drone mate” , where’s your trani “ sold it it a bloke in a pub, said he was going to Timbuktu next day, new saw him before, anything else I can help you with officer.” Bear in mind I’m ex pig, modern ones, being even more undermanned than 20 years ago, and non flyers, without proper training courses are not going to know how to ask the questions. 
I’ve got a mate, ex DCI, sexual offences specialist, retired. Hired back after being retired for 10 years, to run dad’s desk, as he called it, to mentor, advise, train the children, his words, on how to catch criminals. Rant over.

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Certainly in terms of catching criminals, as I'm sure you know, some of them are their own worst enemies and there have been prosecutions where the miscreant has proudly shared the video of their offence online. Literally caught red handed. That's what happened to the guy who flew the FPV-equipped Zagi near to a nuclear submarine base and to the guy who had a near miss with a Hurricane during a public display.

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Let's face it - most of the miscreants who have been caught and successfully prosecuted were apprehended because they were spectacularly stupid! No disrespect to any Plods out there, but they are busy enough just catching the local roughnecks, and have neither the time nor the experience to catch drone pirates.

 

If they can't be prevented from providing drugs/weapons/who-knows-what-else to high security prisons, then we're all doomed!

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Money talks. The CAA's own figures put registrations at over half a million and at over eleven quid a pop that's not small change into their coffers. A nice little regular earner for not a lot of effort or investment from them, and an on-going revenue stream that'll become even more lucrative for them as time goes by.

Not something that they'll want to see compromised even in the face of evidence that will, given time,  show the ineffectiveness of the registration scheme for recreational users. Moreover, it's anyone's guess as to how many sales there  have been in total and are 'off the radar' so to speak.

Something like 6000 drone incidents are reported to police annually with very few actually resulting in a 'collar being felt' let alone a prosecution other than for a few very high profile recent cases. Increasing incidents of 'drone deliveries' to prisons are noted. https://www.protectuk.police.uk/threat-risk/threat-analysis/threat-drones-uk

Just some food for thought when you cough up your next operator ID fee and perhaps believe it's making an actual positive difference to the safety of the public.

We as model flyers do as we are required to do though, despite its questionable worth.

 

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4 hours ago, Cuban8 said:

The CAA's own figures put registrations at over half a million and at over eleven quid a pop that's not small change into their coffers.

 

236k operators. That is c.  £2.5M in fees. The CAA's total income is c. £180M. Our fees pay for a few quangocrats and some computer systems, but that is about it.

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